Where next to look.

[cbcarolyn]

For some reason I'm being told her name was Sadie? there is a record of a Sadie Kinsella marrying a Joseph Carroll so they have put two and two together and come up with that's her.

who was called Sadie? Geralds mother? ie elizabeth condon and not John Kinsella? I think that must refer to another couple, do you have the marriage link? have they got the cert?

[sookie23]

For some reason I'm being told her name was Sadie? there is a record of a Sadie Kinsella marrying a Joseph Carroll so they have put two and two together and come up with that's her.

But what they are not getting is the fact there is no Gerald Kinsella born no Gerald Carroll born on the records. I'm sticking to the Condon side of it all as to me that's the correct side. Sadie could have been a nick name who knows.


Yes I think she had an affair, but her daughter was already born. So its now its down to good old DNA to try and figure out who. A task and half I can tell you

[cbcarolyn]

Seem a member of Gerald family don't quite agree with what we have found out and insists that the Sadie that married a Joseph Carroll in Bucklow is the right woman. Not the one we have married with the address that I have.

So I'm going to now add all the people form Bucklow to the tree and see if any dna matches will come along then on ancestry.

ooh now I am lost, who is Sadie and Joseph? the right woman for what?

[cbcarolyn]

Not sure I fully understand Carolyn.

I may have misunderstood, but you said
"I now think that Doris had an affair with Gerald but she already had her daughter. So now the hunt is to find out who is the biological father of her daughter."

if this is the case the biological father could be anyone, no one that you have researched previously. The DNA could lead you to this mans relatives , but they are likely to be strangers in your tree, I can only think that you will have to focus on location and age to pinpoint the father. DNA experts on here may be able to throw more light on how to research.

[sookie23]

Seem a member of Gerald family don't quite agree with what we have found out and insists that the Sadie that married a Joseph Carroll in Bucklow is the right woman. Not the one we have married with the address that I have.

So I'm going to now add all the people form Bucklow to the tree and see if any dna matches will come along then on ancestry.

[sookie23]

Not sure I fully understand Carolyn.

[PhotoFamily]

the same process if a child has been adopted.

Yes, a professional genetic genealogist told me once - the techniques developed for adoptees looking for their bioparent(s) work for everyone.

DNAADOPTION.com

[cbcarolyn]

I don't know anything about DNA either, but can see you are now hoping to find a father that has (or likely has) no other link to your tree. The DNA matches will have to lead to someone of the 'right' age and presumably living in the area where Gerald was born. I am assuming this will be a better match if the man fathered other children and this family have DNA tests.

That is all that you have to go on, there won't be any people in the tree the same as yours, well unless there was some goings on within the family.

I think in my head this is right the same process if a child has been adopted.

[sookie23]

Carolyn have no idea when it comes to DNA and where to look, but I now understand the need to match different people up to the ones I now know are from family I can trace.

I have asked regarding a tree and they don't have one. All they have said is its from her dads side of the family.

[GallowayLass]

Have you asked the match if they have a more complete tree offline? I only keep a direct line tree attached to my DNA results.

[cbcarolyn]

if you are looking for DNA matches I guess there will be no name that will match your tree? as it will be an unknown father and his subsequent family (if of course he had any), would you need to focus on males of the right age and the area? or am I missing something

[sookie23]

Sookie I puzzled over this reply to Photofamily. I thought it was your husband's maternal grandfather who was in question??

Vera

so it is. His maternal grandfather.

Yes nan is Doris, think the DNA is the only way I may possibly find out.

Have had an email from someone and so far there is no matches on their tree's to the names mentioned.

[vera2013]

Getting no where, seems most of the dna matches are on his nans side. But I'm not giving up

Don't know how to post a double quote. By Nan do you mean Doris?

Very disappointing for you but early days yet and finding DNA matches quite different from finding records to support known people. Fingers crossed

Vera

[vera2013]

It is my husbands paternal grandfather I'm looking for, will definitely look into the Y-DNA test. Never know I may end up emailing a match on one of these DNA sites and it ends up being someone from that side of his family.

Sookie I puzzled over this reply to Photofamily. I thought it was your husband's maternal grandfather who was in question??

Vera

[sookie23]

Getting no where, seems most of the dna matches are on his nans side. But I'm not giving up

[sookie23]

It is my husbands paternal grandfather I'm looking for, will definitely look into the Y-DNA test. Never know I may end up emailing a match on one of these DNA sites and it ends up being someone from that side of his family.

[PhotoFamily]

I can't remember - is this your husband's paternal grandfather that is in question? Y-DNA testing might give a surname to work from if that is the case. And the US Father's Day is coming up, so the test will go on sale. Usual recommendation is to test at FamilyTreeDNA. YSeq is another possibility.

[vera2013]

Having read last two posts I think I get it. The Gerald Carroll your husband has known as his grandfather had mother he knew as Nana Kinsella nee Elizabeth Condon. However biologically may not be the case. DNA as Carolyn said only way of maybe finding out truth if that's the route your husband still wants to go down.

Vera

[sookie23]

I've emailed a few more people in hope I get a reply but I wont hold my breath, its a shame really that people have their DNA done then leave it at that.

I'm 100% certain the info we have is all Geralds family, so we have done someone some work if they ever start to look for him. I cant thankyou both enough for the help you have given me. I will eventually move them all over to their own tree.

I now think that Doris had an affair with Gerald but she already had her daughter. So now the hunt is to find out who is the biological father of her daughter.

[cbcarolyn]

My husbands nan (Doris) was never married but claimed Gerald Carroll was the father of her daughter. Gerald was married twice once in 1939 and then again in 1946. Doris had a girl in 1944 she was born a Remfry and her name wasn't changed on the birth records until 1959 to Carroll. Doris went by the name Mrs Carroll but was never married to him.

To me being that he was of an Irish parent/grandparent there would have been more than the 2% Irish connection.

So now I'm hoping that the DNA results will either find Gerald is the father of Doris daughter via cousins or if not find a cousin that can point me in a direction to find out who was. Who knows if this will ever happen.

I've uploaded the DNA to LDNA still waiting for the results can take a while by the look of it.
MH has given me 3rd cousins onwards
FTDNA I will have a look at now.

That is a shame for your search, Gerald possibly didn't know any different either. So the DNA will not prove Geralds ancestry, which is a shame, as the child would have thought of Gerald as her father. The many records that have been found are making a very good case for being correct, Vera has found lots to tie them together. maybe in the next few years there will be more records released that will strengthen the case, including the UK census out next year. Wonder if we have missed anything.

Finding the biological father (if not Gerald) will be from DNA only and I guess a learning experience, if you feel this is important to know.