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    NB that is only the Kinsella's with "Harbour" in address
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


      Originally posted by sookie23 View Post
      Its here

      John Kinsella 48 years widower 21 Greenhill park Harlesden father Laurence Kinsella fathers occupation Labourer

      Elizabeth Carroll 40 years widow address as above father Patrick Condon fathers occupation shoeing smith

      witnesses Mary O Mallery and Maurice Sheehy

      no idea if that should be O'Mallery but I've typed it as it is on the certificate.
      So does confirm that she was married to a Mr Carroll, just no idea where. good info worth getting
      Carolyn
      Family Tree site

      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

      Comment


        So it seems by what's on the certificate, but there is still no record of Gerald Carroll being born 8 Jan 1918.


        Comment


          Originally posted by sookie23 View Post
          So it seems by what's on the certificate, but there is still no record of Gerald Carroll being born 8 Jan 1918.

          Not yet. Need to delve into records to try to find m between Condon and Carroll if she indeed married. That could be UK or even Ireland and then there is the hearsay re Boston! However father Patrick may turn something up. Sure Shoeingsmith is a military term.

          For info surname Condon predominant in Limerick Tipperary and Cork

          Vera

          Comment


            I will go through every Elizabeth Codon that married at some point and then put the name with Gerald and see if that bring anything up.



            Comment


              Just parking this one. Date and month of birth as 1939

              Elizabeth Condon b 20 May 1897 Labbamolagga, Mitchelstown, Cork
              Father Patrick - Blacksmith
              Mother Mary Sullivan

              On 1901 with family
              1911 disappears.
              Possible sighting 1915 aged 16 Liverpool to NY accompanying children Catherine 10, Ellen 5

              Sookie was Patrick Condon deceased at time of marriage of John and Elizabeth?
              Any occupation recorded for Elizabeth?

              Vera

              Comment


                20th May is her date of birth on the 1939 Census. I'm sure the year is 1889 but I've come across 1897 somewhere, may be her age at death that I came to that.

                Yes he was put as deceased on the certificate. Elizabeth occupation Cook.

                Comment


                  Good find Vera

                  did spot this earlier, birth date wrong - but other details fit. I know this is a bit of a tangent, but did wonder if the families were linked, although Cork nowhere near Wexford!

                  https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
                  John Kinsella
                  Blackwater and Killala
                  Ferns
                  Wexford
                  27 Dec 1879
                  Laurence Kinsella
                  Kate Neil
                  Thos Kinsella
                  Bridget Kinsella
                  Last edited by cbcarolyn; 15-05-21, 21:24.
                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=11334188

                    Not sure if you can see this but this is

                    Inwards travel on Baltic New York to Liverpool

                    25 th February 1919

                    11 Labbamologger, Ireland

                    Condon, Miss E Waitress 23
                    Condon, Master G child 1 year, 1 month

                    country of last permanent residence USA. Heading to permanent residence in Ireland

                    Vera

                    Comment


                      I have know idea how you find the information that you do, but I'm super glad you do. I've sat here for ages trying to find info but getting no where.

                      My heart is pounding lol off to look at the link.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=11334188

                        Not sure if you can see this but this is

                        Inwards travel on Baltic New York to Liverpool

                        25 th February 1919

                        11 Labbamologger, Ireland

                        Condon, Miss E Waitress 23
                        Condon, Master G child 1 year, 1 month

                        country of last permanent residence USA. Heading to permanent residence in Ireland

                        Vera
                        wow what a find, interesting that not a Carroll. that has got to be her surely.
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                          It was lovely to see little Gerald. However a basic search as sceptical about hearsay and up it pops

                          Wonder if Elizabeth ever married?

                          Vera

                          Comment


                            I'm just lost for words. Sending a massive thank you.

                            Still need to find his record of birth, and a record of a Condon and Carroll. Would be nice to be proved wrong and she did at some point marry a Carroll, or even lived with a Carroll.

                            Comment


                              https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...3A1%3AKBZY-RK3

                              Looks like him but not named at this point. I wonder if Elizabeth just adopted the name Carroll for re-entry into family

                              Vera

                              Comment


                                I've been thinking the same thing.

                                Strange they recorded his birth without a name. Wonder if she registered him at a later date either in America or Ireland. So would he have been classed as American or Irish?

                                Comment


                                  Mr Carroll maybe the father and maybe he did die (or married), she just never married him, so adopted his name and said they were married.

                                  excellent work, how exciting, I didn't see the travel to USA was it with the mother, the tree is not long in USA then, and has Irish roots.
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by sookie23 View Post
                                    I've been thinking the same thing.

                                    Strange they recorded his birth without a name. Wonder if she registered him at a later date either in America or Ireland. So would he have been classed as American or Irish?
                                    that sometimes does happen. It could be Elizabeth wanted Gerald christened first and maybe some father involvement in the name.

                                    There is a Massacheusett index and birth records available but don't think the actual records are available for 1918. ? Go up to 1900. I think Gerald would be classed as father's nationality and country in which he was born but not sure. Lots of thinks!

                                    What I felt was significant was that Elizabeth appears to have been supported. She gives her address as a Boston hotel and is able to get a lying in bed. I don't think the latter were so readily available. The DNA may reveal something.

                                    Vera
                                    ​​​​​​

                                    Comment


                                      I'm going to email the Common wealth Massachusetts and enquire about a digital copy of the certificate, there is a form online to fill in and email back but they then call you for payment of $3 think their call to me would cost more than that. There may be more information on the actually certificate.

                                      I'm thinking along the lines, may be the Gerald was married fed her the usual banter, he did die, he done a runner, so many scenario's and she was still young and in a country that she didn't really know.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by sookie23 View Post
                                        I'm going to email the Common wealth Massachusetts and enquire about a digital copy of the certificate, there is a form online to fill in and email back but they then call you for payment of $3 think their call to me would cost more than that. There may be more information on the actually certificate.

                                        I'm thinking along the lines, may be the Gerald was married fed her the usual banter, he did die, he done a runner, so many scenario's and she was still young and in a country that she didn't really know.
                                        Good if you could get cert and who knows what it may reveal. Fingers crossed.

                                        Although birth record looks a bit stark, I don't get the impression Elizabeth was left to fend for herself.

                                        Just 're read thread. Did Gerald give occupation of father Gerald on his mc to Elsie G?

                                        Vera

                                        Comment


                                          No nothing at all just the name Gerald Carroll and deceased.

                                          I will email them on Monday morning as we all know emails go missing over the weekends.

                                          Comment

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