Where next to look.

[cbcarolyn]

NB that is only the Kinsella's with "Harbour" in address

[cbcarolyn]

Its here

John Kinsella 48 years widower 21 Greenhill park Harlesden father Laurence Kinsella fathers occupation Labourer

Elizabeth Carroll 40 years widow address as above father Patrick Condon fathers occupation shoeing smith

witnesses Mary O Mallery and Maurice Sheehy

no idea if that should be O'Mallery but I've typed it as it is on the certificate.

So does confirm that she was married to a Mr Carroll, just no idea where. good info worth getting

[sookie23]

So it seems by what's on the certificate, but there is still no record of Gerald Carroll being born 8 Jan 1918.

[vera2013]

So it seems by what's on the certificate, but there is still no record of Gerald Carroll being born 8 Jan 1918.

Not yet. Need to delve into records to try to find m between Condon and Carroll if she indeed married. That could be UK or even Ireland and then there is the hearsay re Boston! However father Patrick may turn something up. Sure Shoeingsmith is a military term.

For info surname Condon predominant in Limerick Tipperary and Cork

Vera

[sookie23]

I will go through every Elizabeth Codon that married at some point and then put the name with Gerald and see if that bring anything up.

[vera2013]

Just parking this one. Date and month of birth as 1939

Elizabeth Condon b 20 May 1897 Labbamolagga, Mitchelstown, Cork
Father Patrick - Blacksmith
Mother Mary Sullivan

On 1901 with family
1911 disappears.
Possible sighting 1915 aged 16 Liverpool to NY accompanying children Catherine 10, Ellen 5

Sookie was Patrick Condon deceased at time of marriage of John and Elizabeth?
Any occupation recorded for Elizabeth?

Vera

[sookie23]

20th May is her date of birth on the 1939 Census. I'm sure the year is 1889 but I've come across 1897 somewhere, may be her age at death that I came to that.

Yes he was put as deceased on the certificate. Elizabeth occupation Cook.

[cbcarolyn]

Good find Vera

did spot this earlier, birth date wrong - but other details fit. I know this is a bit of a tangent, but did wonder if the families were linked, although Cork nowhere near Wexford!

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

John Kinsella

Blackwater and Killala

Ferns

Wexford

27 Dec 1879

Laurence Kinsella

Kate Neil

Thos Kinsella

Bridget Kinsella

[vera2013]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=11334188

Not sure if you can see this but this is

Inwards travel on Baltic New York to Liverpool

25 th February 1919

11 Labbamologger, Ireland

Condon, Miss E Waitress 23
Condon, Master G child 1 year, 1 month

country of last permanent residence USA. Heading to permanent residence in Ireland

Vera

[sookie23]

I have know idea how you find the information that you do, but I'm super glad you do. I've sat here for ages trying to find info but getting no where.

My heart is pounding lol off to look at the link.

[cbcarolyn]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=11334188

Not sure if you can see this but this is

Inwards travel on Baltic New York to Liverpool

25 th February 1919

11 Labbamologger, Ireland

Condon, Miss E Waitress 23
Condon, Master G child 1 year, 1 month

country of last permanent residence USA. Heading to permanent residence in Ireland

Vera

wow what a find, interesting that not a Carroll. that has got to be her surely.

[vera2013]

It was lovely to see little Gerald. However a basic search as sceptical about hearsay and up it pops

Wonder if Elizabeth ever married?

Vera

[sookie23]

I'm just lost for words. Sending a massive thank you.

Still need to find his record of birth, and a record of a Condon and Carroll. Would be nice to be proved wrong and she did at some point marry a Carroll, or even lived with a Carroll.

[vera2013]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GR62-7GP?i=7&cc=1928860&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKBZY-RK3

Looks like him but not named at this point. I wonder if Elizabeth just adopted the name Carroll for re-entry into family

Vera

[sookie23]

I've been thinking the same thing.

Strange they recorded his birth without a name. Wonder if she registered him at a later date either in America or Ireland. So would he have been classed as American or Irish?

[cbcarolyn]

Mr Carroll maybe the father and maybe he did die (or married), she just never married him, so adopted his name and said they were married.

excellent work, how exciting, I didn't see the travel to USA was it with the mother, the tree is not long in USA then, and has Irish roots.

[vera2013]

I've been thinking the same thing.

Strange they recorded his birth without a name. Wonder if she registered him at a later date either in America or Ireland. So would he have been classed as American or Irish?

that sometimes does happen. It could be Elizabeth wanted Gerald christened first and maybe some father involvement in the name.

There is a Massacheusett index and birth records available but don't think the actual records are available for 1918. ? Go up to 1900. I think Gerald would be classed as father's nationality and country in which he was born but not sure. Lots of thinks!

What I felt was significant was that Elizabeth appears to have been supported. She gives her address as a Boston hotel and is able to get a lying in bed. I don't think the latter were so readily available. The DNA may reveal something.

Vera

[sookie23]

I'm going to email the Common wealth Massachusetts and enquire about a digital copy of the certificate, there is a form online to fill in and email back but they then call you for payment of $3 think their call to me would cost more than that. There may be more information on the actually certificate.

I'm thinking along the lines, may be the Gerald was married fed her the usual banter, he did die, he done a runner, so many scenario's and she was still young and in a country that she didn't really know.

[vera2013]

I'm going to email the Common wealth Massachusetts and enquire about a digital copy of the certificate, there is a form online to fill in and email back but they then call you for payment of $3 think their call to me would cost more than that. There may be more information on the actually certificate.

I'm thinking along the lines, may be the Gerald was married fed her the usual banter, he did die, he done a runner, so many scenario's and she was still young and in a country that she didn't really know.

Good if you could get cert and who knows what it may reveal. Fingers crossed.

Although birth record looks a bit stark, I don't get the impression Elizabeth was left to fend for herself.

Just 're read thread. Did Gerald give occupation of father Gerald on his mc to Elsie G?

Vera

[sookie23]

No nothing at all just the name Gerald Carroll and deceased.

I will email them on Monday morning as we all know emails go missing over the weekends.