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  • PhotoFamily
    replied
    Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
    I am not sure if divorce records are available, think question has been asked before.
    "After 1938, very few survive" - uh, oh.
    "Subject to 30 year closure" - so if it exists, you could get it.
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...etails/r/C9685

    Leave a comment:


  • cbcarolyn
    replied
    Any idea why his death was in Dungeness Power station? A long way from home, thought there maybe a newspaper report, but can't see anything.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbcarolyn
    replied
    I am not sure if divorce records are available, think question has been asked before.

    I did look in newspapers, but will have another look. sounds like Vera also looked so guessing nothing there.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhotoFamily
    replied
    Well, you never know what might be on the other cert unless you buy it. It can, of course, be very disappointing. Sometimes very exciting.

    Who were the witnesses to the Elsie-Gerald marriage?

    Is it known that Elsie and Gerald divorced? Ancestry only has UK divorce records to 1918 - can a UK researcher address where to look for a UK divorce after 1939?

    Oh, and - what about DNA testing?

    Is this her second marriage?
    Elsie G Rogers
    Apr 1947
    [May 1947]
    [Jun 1947]
    Apr-May-Jun
    Croydon
    Surrey
    Charles Gray
    5g
    224

    Leave a comment:


  • sookie23
    replied
    Just the one to Elsie. I've not come across any divorce records online.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhotoFamily
    replied
    So, in the 1939 register, Elsie is initially listed as Elsie Carroll, which is then crossed out, and Rogers is written, which is then crossed out and Gray is written.

    They divorced? Were the divorce records retrieved?

    Have you retrieved both marriage certs or just the one to Elsie?

    Leave a comment:


  • sookie23
    replied
    Many thanks for checking that out for me.

    All his marriage certificate says: Gerald Carroll, 20 years old, bachelor, lorry driver (cement contractors) ,166 Canterbury Road Croydon. Gerald Carrol (deceased)

    Leave a comment:


  • vera2013
    replied
    Not able to find anything which reveals dob of Gerald from Army records. Gerald was a Sgt in the RASC and is recorded in the London Gazette on two occasions in 1944. One refers to the approval of the King that Gerald along with others be mentioned in recognition of their gallant and distinguished services in the Middle East.

    Do you have Gerald's pob at the time of marriage?

    Vera

    Leave a comment:


  • sookie23
    replied
    The Marriage of John Kinsella to Elizabeth Carroll was in 1937 off the top of my head he passed away in 1945. Elizabeth Kinsella passed away 1966.

    I'm 99.9 % the Elizabeth Kinsella at 39 Burns Road is his mum.
    Married when she had Gerald I've no idea, the tale that was told was that Gerald was born in Boston his father died and he and his mother came to England. If this is true who knows.
    Either American or Irish that's also hear say .
    No death certificate seen for his mother.
    I think she was Carroll first then Kinsella. Was she ever a Carroll? she could have just taken this name on like my husbands nan did.

    Gerald army number T144535 he was in the Royal Army Service Corps.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbcarolyn
    replied
    Just been reading through the thread can I confirm that you know:
    • 39 Burns Road is the correct mother?
    • she was not married when she had Gerald
    • mother was American or just came over from America (guess she was a bit young to have gone and come back)?
    • Have you seen death cert of mother
    • wondering if Mr Kinsella left her hence why she went by Carroll

    Leave a comment:


  • vera2013
    replied
    Originally posted by sookie23 View Post
    ​​​​

    Gerald was in the army and do have is army number. I emailed the FWR to ask if they would have had his place of birth on his records but they replied with a no.
    If you wish to give us Gerald's Army details, records with more details may be available on other sites

    Vera

    Leave a comment:


  • sookie23
    replied
    I've found a lot of Elizabeth Kinsella at the address in Burns road 1946-1965 with a few years in between missing. I think I may have to purchase their marriage certificate to see if I can get some more information from that. Just really getting to me that I just cannot for the life of me find Gerald's birth record. Lets hope the 1929 census comes out pretty soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbcarolyn
    replied
    Parking all this here:

    I downloaded the electoral reg to see if I could find any records with a Elizabeth & John

    in 1938 there is one 21 Greenhill Park - there are 2 John Kinsella's and an Elizabeth (maybe his son?)
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...&pId=266682406

    1939 John and Elizabeth 18 Talbot road (matches 1939 reg)
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...&pId=161870561

    earliest sighting in 39 Burns road is 1946 and no John
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...&pId=186855966

    there is a John T Kinsella in Willesden in 1946

    There is then a John and Margaret Kinsella Stapleton Road
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...&pId=438102275

    who are then in Hazeldean road


    Leave a comment:


  • sookie23
    replied
    We know zero about her apart from the surname Kinsella and the address. Plus what I was told regarding Gerald. Everything was all kept hush hush due to my husband's nan having a child by Gerald out of wedlock but going by the name Mrs Carroll until the day she died.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbcarolyn
    replied
    do you know if his mother worked? Some of the immigration records had an occupation, did see midwife on one - but dates looked wrong on that particular one, didn't look at anymore in case you knew.

    Leave a comment:


  • sookie23
    replied
    I'm on ancestry and it's possibly my tree with the dad as Gerald Carroll as that's the name on his marriage certificate under father, I'm beginning to doubt if he actually was. The other ones are wife of Gerald's son that is also looking for more information on Gerald Carroll. Another one is possibly mine also but separated from mine for my husbands DNA result

    That's definitely mine with the Elizabeth and John Kinsella. I just added them whilst I looked up more info. As of yet I still haven't come across a record of an Elizabeth having a child called Gerald.

    Gerald was in the army and do have is army number. I emailed the FWR to ask if they would have had his place of birth on his records but they replied with a no.

    Leave a comment:


  • vera2013
    replied
    Was Gerald in the military in WW2?

    Vera

    Leave a comment:


  • cbcarolyn
    replied
    there is a John and Elizabeth Kinsella 18 Talbot Road Willesden on 1939 register and also reg of electors. Elizabeth Kinsella is on reg of electors for many years at 39 Burns Road, trying to find first one to see if John was ever there with her.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhotoFamily
    replied
    As OzGirl says - if you get the marriage certs, it will have a space for father's name and occupation. It will also give Gerald's residence at the time of the marriage. Kind of him to marry twice ;) The marriage certs are only as accurate as the information that he gave at the time of the marriage - usually accurate, but some times people didn't know or were obfuscating their origins.

    You will also get witnesses to the marriages, which at times are close family members, and again can be useful.

    When I looked on FamilySearch's 1920 census for Gerald Carroll, age two - there were two living in the Boston area that were possible candidates. One seemed unlikely (both parents born in MA).

    Unfortunately, what you don't know with more clues - was he really from Boston, or was he born somewhere near Boston, and that's how the family explained it to others since Boston would more likely be known.

    Something else that might be useful - was he Catholic? Did he marry in a Catholic church? I don't know if Boston Catholic church records are online, but the RCs were more methodical about the records and have a better chance of surviving to the present.

    Leave a comment:


  • ozgirl
    replied
    Do You have Ancestry access? There are 6 public trees on Ancestry which have Gerald . 2 have him being born in Boston, 2 in Croydon and 2 have no place of birth mentioned. 1 gives his father as another Gerald Carroll, and also says his mother married John Kinsella in Willesden in Jun Q 1937. If you get this marriage certificate it will give you his mother's maiden name. It also looks as though Elizabeth died in 1966 at age 69, giving her a dob of ca 1897.


    Snap Vera!

    Also, if you get Gerald's marriage cert, this will give his father's name (hopefully)

    Leave a comment:

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