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  • a quick look at freebmd brings back 4 children Carroll/Kinsella in the area and time, have put initials as could still be around

    EM 1925 Bucklow, Cheshire
    F 1929 Bucklow, Cheshire
    LJ 1930 Bucklow, Cheshire
    RG 1923 Bucklow, Cheshire
    RJ 1927 Bucklow, Cheshire

    and here they are here, but no Sadie, so assume that she may have died, there is a Sarah Carroll death

    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=24724452
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
      Hmmm - not sure what others think, but that doesn't look that likely. You know that her name was Elizabeth from address on reg of electors and 1939 reg. Guess worth trying to trace Sadie and see where she goes
      I don't know what to think but how about Elizabeth Condon with young Gerald arrived in Liverpool 1919.

      ​​​​​She then went on in 1923 to marry in Bucklow, Cheshire, using the name Sadie Kinsella, a Joseph Carroll. So Joseph Carroll would be the stepfather of young Gerald b 1918 Boston.

      That marriage broke down. Elizabeth Carroll (previously Sadie Carroll nee Kinsella) then left Bucklow for London where in ? 1937 she married John Kinsella.

      Or Gerald on maturity ended up in Croydon and Elizabeth aka Sadie. Not sure what became of her.

      The 2nd mc of Gerald may reveal another father albeit step. EDIT or maybe the mc of Sadie Kinsella and Joseph Carroll 1923

      Vera

      Comment


      • I did follow that route when I first started and Sadie disappeared, and Joseph Carroll was married to someone else in the 1939 census. But I will have another dig around for her. But I don't think there is any connection.

        Gerald marriage records have fathers name Gerald Carroll.

        The 1921 census cant come out quick enough.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
          a quick look at freebmd brings back 4 children Carroll/Kinsella in the area and time, have put initials as could still be around

          EM 1925 Bucklow, Cheshire
          F 1929 Bucklow, Cheshire
          LJ 1930 Bucklow, Cheshire
          RG 1923 Bucklow, Cheshire
          RJ 1927 Bucklow, Cheshire

          and here they are here, but no Sadie, so assume that she may have died, there is a Sarah Carroll death

          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=24724452
          I agree with Carolyn and yourself Sookie likely to be no connection with the Sadie Kinsella

          However I don't feel hearsay can be ignored, just eliminated so where did Millie (Gerald's 2nd wife) get info from I wonder.

          Hopefully 1921 online soon.

          Vera

          Comment


          • I'm hoping to hear directly from the person that said all this but so far they haven't contacted me. When the do that will be my first question.

            Comment


            • I am sure it's was mentioned on here before that Sadie is a nickname for Sarah, google has confirmed that.

              There is a Sarah Kinsella, in Liverpool, maybe her
              https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ce&pId=3341004

              will have a look later.
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


              • there is a death of a Sarah Carroll in South Manchester 1932 - which is the area that now includes Bucklow

                https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...4&pId=24982583
                Last edited by cbcarolyn; 10-06-21, 22:29.
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                • Looked up the link in Wills and probate and it puts her as a widow, so if that's the right Sarah its not her as Joseph was alive and kicking.

                  I'm not convinced the Sadie Carroll is the right track. There is no Gerald on the UK birth register that matches his date of birth and believe me I've tried. the only match I've ever seen is the Condon one Vera found.

                  The address with the Kinsella name is enough for me also to say we are right along with what we have found. We have tracked and traced the families movements.

                  Elizabeth going as a Carroll until she married isn't news to me Doris did the same went as a Mrs Carroll so did she get the idea from Elizabeth, who knows.

                  Comment


                  • Don't know if this has been posted already - public tree on ancestry which gives Sarah Kinsella's birth as 1902 in Roscommon, Ireland.

                    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...63338933/facts
                    Linda


                    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by sookie23 View Post
                      Looked up the link in Wills and probate and it puts her as a widow, so if that's the right Sarah its not her as Joseph was alive and kicking.

                      I'm not convinced the Sadie Carroll is the right track. There is no Gerald on the UK birth register that matches his date of birth and believe me I've tried. the only match I've ever seen is the Condon one Vera found.

                      The address with the Kinsella name is enough for me also to say we are right along with what we have found. We have tracked and traced the families movements.

                      Elizabeth going as a Carroll until she married isn't news to me Doris did the same went as a Mrs Carroll so did she get the idea from Elizabeth, who knows.
                      The Will is for Sarah Carroll who died in August 1932 in Middlesex, not the one in Manchester.
                      Linda


                      My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                      Comment


                      • I tend to believe Gerald was born in Boston to Elizabeth she was unmarried returned to Ireland to her catholic family and took on the name of Elizabeth Carroll. I'm sure her sisters in Boston would have stuck to her side of the story if ever questioned by her parents. Her only lie being she married Geralds father when in USA. Perhaps his father did die, that's something I've still to look at. At the end of the day it still seems the DNA is leading to Doris side being untrue regarding Gerald being the biological father of her chid. Could look it it differently as he was the father to her as he supported her and her chid.

                        Comment


                        • a long absence by myself been out the country, but now back home, and picking up the mystery once again.

                          In the paperwork I have of Doris there is a post office bank book, under her name there is a reference number the surname Remfry is crossed out and Carroll is written in place. Is there anywhere where you can check to see if her name was changed via deed poll etc.

                          Comment


                          • I don't know if there are records anywhere, but I was searching for someone on here and I found an announcement in the papers. I really can't remember if I looked in the papers for Remfry, I think I did for carroll though.
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                            • nothing stands out immediately - do you suspect a rough time for this?
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                              • I'm sure it would have been around 1959. Reason for that is that's when the daughter's name was changed from Remfry to Carroll.

                                Comment


                                • will try papers again for that time, you never know
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                  • I've not had much luck with newspapers online post 1950. Bit hit and miss - thinks it's still quite recent; accessing info for living people etc.

                                    Jay
                                    Janet in Yorkshire



                                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                    Comment


                                    • Thanks for looking.
                                      Her sister did work in a solicitors office so some paperwork could have just been done but not legally.

                                      Comment


                                      • I've been sent this from an Ancestry member who's step sister is a match to mark.
                                        Attached Files

                                        Comment


                                        • is it any help to you? or presents an even bigger msytery?
                                          Carolyn
                                          Family Tree site

                                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                          Comment

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