Still struggling with Kean’s

[Holly]

Thomas Kean, born Manchester in 1878, parents John Kean and Kate Kean.

On the 1881Census, Piece 3958,Folio93, Page 45.
John and Kate Kean have 3 children, Elizabeth 5, Thomas 3 and John 1

Thomas Kean seems to have Married twice. He’s a Widower on the 1911 Census. He seems to have had 3 daughters, but I’m not sure if they’re all from his second marriage or not.

Any help welcomed!

Holly.

[cbcarolyn]

are these another lot from this thread? https://www.familytreeforum.com/foru...anchester-1860

or a sibling?

[Holly]

I’m unsure how they fit in Carolyn...

However, I have a new DNA match who seems to match to me at 2nd/3rd Cousin level, whose mother’s Grandfather was this Thomas Kean (1878 - 1944).

She also matches to my daughter, sister and paternal 1st Cousins...

And so I’m trying to untangle these Kean’s!

[cbcarolyn]

Not sure what you have found, but am already confused by a tree on ancestry! They have a Thomas in 1911 with a John and Kate and he is a widowed no children

then I have one in 1939 with a wife Kate and 3 children, which I assume are these on GRO, so guessing these are different family

KEAN, WINIFRED DAVIES	DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 77
KEAN, MURIEL DAVIES	DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1913 M Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 89
KEAN, KATHLEEN DAVIES	DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1915 J Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 167

[Holly]

I wondered if they all had their mother’s maiden name (Davies) as part of their names because the parents weren’t married?

[cbcarolyn]

Working back from 1939 record....

A Winifred is with Thomas widowed, Thomas' mother (Elizabeth Kean) and Thomas' siblings

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2352/images/rg14_24058_0629_03?treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi40232&_phstart=successSource&pId=23348992

another Winifred looking much more likely with mother Kate Kean (married) and she is sister in law to Patrick Rourke and Annie

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2352/images/rg14_23989_0339_03?treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi40235&_phstart=successSource&pId=25756966

[cbcarolyn]

found a marriage of Annie Davies and Patrick Rourke, so looking likely that they are Davies girls.

Can't find a marriage for Thomas and Kate - one in 1914, so maybe you are right.

[Holly]

I’ve finally managed to speak to my DNA match who sparked me off on this search, - and it turns out that I had been following the wrong mother!

I should have been looking at Veronica Kean, born 1924, whose parents were John Lawrence Kean, 1900 - 1956 and Elizabeth A. Mahon.

John Lawrence Kean’s parents were John Kean, 1865 - 1940 and Sarah Hannah Kay. And that John Kean’s brother was Richard Kean, born 1860. Which brings me full circle back to the Kean family that I was previously looking at!

Holly.

[cbcarolyn]

I’ve finally managed to speak to my DNA match who sparked me off on this search, - and it turns out that I had been following the wrong mother!

I should have been looking at Veronica Kean, born 1924, whose parents were John Lawrence Kean, 1900 - 1956 and Elizabeth A. Mahon.

John Lawrence Kean’s parents were John Kean, 1865 - 1940 and Sarah Hannah Kay. And that John Kean’s brother was Richard Kean, born 1860. Which brings me full circle back to the Kean family that I was previously looking at!

Holly.

so it is looking like your assumptions that Richard Kean is your Grandfather with a name change? or are you saying this doesn't fit?

[Holly]

I really don’t know what to think Carolyn!

He certainly fits the bill in-terms of timeframe and occupation, but I couldn’t prove anything definitively...

Holly.

[cbcarolyn]

I really don’t know what to think Carolyn!

He certainly fits the bill in-terms of timeframe and occupation, but I couldn’t prove anything definitively...

Holly.

I guess you may never know - unless he wrote it down somewhere - you just amass DNA results from that tree to yours

[PhotoFamily]

Sometimes the wives of the line in question can help with some sorting. If you are debating if your branch was descended from a particular pair, can you find matches to the other marriage partner's lineage (in your case, the wife)? Does a known descendant have a match on that maternal side, you match the descendant, but not the maternal kit - hmm, makes you wonder.

Having a tree to look at can help visualize and recommend...

[Holly]

I’ve been writing it all out by hand on a very large piece of card, PhotoFamily!
I find it hard to follow Trees online sometimes, - and this makes it more real somehow...
Holly.

[Holly]

2 Kean brothers married 2 Kay sisters.
But that doesn't explain my Butler DNA matches...

OK, I’m totally stuck:-(

Holly