Can you see a baptism?

[tessie31082]

Hi all, trying to find a baptism for Philidelphia / Phildelpha / Delpha Baley (maybe Balay / Bailey / Baily etc). Census' say she's born in a small village called Burcot/Burcott, Oxfordshire around 1778. She married John Stacey in Dorchester in 1798 and died 1855 buried in Dorchester. The marriage record I found doesn't give father's name and no other Baley's are witnesses.
If anyone can see one I'd be most greatful
Tessie

[Darksecretz]

Oooher.. I have found a Philadelphia Bailey but in Mayfield Sussex... what a coincidence! born 1773.

not seeing much though at the min.

[tessie31082]

Thanks Darksecretz - I thought with an unusual name like that she would be easier to find lol - glad it's not just me not seeing much! That find is close, wonder if that one can be traced forward staying in that area - i'll take a look

[Darksecretz]

Thanks Darksecretz - I thought with an unusual name like that she would be easier to find lol - glad it's not just me not seeing much! That find is close, wonder if that one can be traced forward staying in that area - i'll take a look

I have even looked on familysearch, I can see her marriage, the children's baptisms and her death and 1851/1841 cens but that is it..

[Darksecretz]

I should say that there seems to be less on familysearch really than Ancestry.. which is unusual to say the least, I even tried searching with Philadelphia nada zilch nowt! [on FS]

[tessie31082]

Yep, I looked there too and FMP - just a quick search. I wonder if its possibly not be her real first name or she wasn't baptised / records not online for some reason?! Oh well, brick wall for now I guess!

Thanks for taking a look

[PhotoFamily]

Any chance she is a Dissenter? Or that her parents were? I see that name and think Quakers, tho I don't think it was limited to that denomination.

[tessie31082]

Any chance she is a Dissenter? Or that her parents were? I see that name and think Quakers, tho I don't think it was limited to that denomination.

Oh not heard this before (off to Google ). There was/is a society called the Philadelphians (organised by someone in Berkshire in the 1600's) maybe connected or just coincidnece with the name! Her children are baptised but if she married John Stacey and he was C of E then I suppose they would be!?

Thanks

[PhotoFamily]

My (flawed?) understanding of Dissenters:
Prior to 1837 (beginning of CivReg), CofE records were the official registration system, with Jewish, Catholic and Quaker records also accepted.

To be recognized as a legitimate birth, parents must be married within the official system, and children must be baptized within the official system --> big deal for things like inheritance and making claims for relief/privileges in organizations like the London Guilds.

Therefore, Dissenters frequently married in a CofE church, and often baptized their children there too. Side branch of mine, very vocal Dissenters, didn't baptize the children in CofE church until the boys were much older, and didn't baptize the girls in the CofE at all.

One question that I would ask about the marriage that you have - was it by banns, or by license? Dissenters were often married by license - they weren't "known" to the rector, and he could require the license. You can also think of it as another form of taxation, since it cost money to buy a license.

Oh, and - even if she had been born to a Dissenter's family, she could have become a CofE member along the way. But I think you would have found a baptism for her if that were the case.

[PhotoFamily]

Oh, and - again, my (flawed?) understanding - one of the reasons for going to CivReg - Dissenters records were not considered reliable (Quaker, Catholic and Jewish were). All church records were to be turned over in the 1837 start of CivReg.

Others who have a solid understanding, please add/correct.

Oh, and - if they married by license, it's a good thing to track that down, if it still exists.

I didn't know about the Philadelphians. The US city, Philadelphia, was named by the Quakers "<William> Penn named the city Philadelphia, which is Greek for "brotherly love,"

But I have a connection on a side branch to a woman named Philadelphia. Thanks for the info.

[PhotoFamily]

Image of the marriage is on Familysearch - it's by banns.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNT-H7YD?i=224&cat=231541

[ozgirl]

A number of trees on Ancestry have her as being born in Clifton Hampden, just down the road from Burcott, in 1779 to John Baley and Rose Swain. Unfortunately the parish records available on Ancestry and FamilySearch do not go that far back to check.


https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...dshire-England

[PhotoFamily]

A number of trees on Ancestry have her as being born in Clifton Hampden, just down the road from Burcott, in 1779 to John Baley and Rose Swain. Unfortunately the parish records available on Ancestry and FamilySearch do not go that far back to check.

FS has Clifton Chapel images

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...406&cat=227400

page 125 has records from 1778-1779. I didn't spot any marriages before/after. Sometimes records can be interspersed in the film, and I didn't go nosing around very much

Oh, wait - the tree says 1773 - that marriage is on page 119!

[tessie31082]

FS has Clifton Chapel images

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...406&cat=227400

page 125 has records from 1778-1779. I didn't spot any marriages before/after. Sometimes records can be interspersed in the film, and I didn't go nosing around very much

Oh, wait - the tree says 1773 - that marriage is on page 119!

I didn't know you could actually see the records like this! I'll have a look on FS later when I have some time off work and go through to see if I can see a baptism for Philadelphia and see if I can tie her up to this John Bailey and Rose Swain marriage at Clifton or see if they have the Dorchester records too.
Thanks for giving me some extra pointers

[tessie31082]

A number of trees on Ancestry have her as being born in Clifton Hampden, just down the road from Burcott, in 1779 to John Baley and Rose Swain. Unfortunately the parish records available on Ancestry and FamilySearch do not go that far back to check.


https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...dshire-England

Hi Ozgirl, yes I saw this too but there are no records proving they are her parents so will have a good look on FS later and see what I find

[keldon]

In case anyone wants to see the page of the register.

Name: Richard Baley
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 21 Jan 1776
Baptism Place: Clifton Hampden, Oxfordshire, England
Father: John Baley
Mother: Rose Baley
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

[tessie31082]

FS has Clifton Chapel images

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...406&cat=227400

page 125 has records from 1778-1779. I didn't spot any marriages before/after. Sometimes records can be interspersed in the film, and I didn't go nosing around very much

Oh, wait - the tree says 1773 - that marriage is on page 119!

Photo family - how do I find church records for a specific place on FS so that I can go through the images? I want to see if FS has Dorchester on Thames and Burcot in case Philadelphia was baptised in one of the next villages?

Thanks

[cbcarolyn]

I think you go to search --> catalog then enter the place.

[PhotoFamily]

I think you go to search --> catalog then enter the place.

Within the place, there will be a list of the type of records - "Church records" for PR (or BTs etc).

In some places, there will be several churches listed (C-H has just the one listing). Some may seem duplicates, but there may be reasons why one church has two listings, such as a transcription of the records in addition to the records.

Click on the church you want to explore, and see more details about the records that FS has.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/...tory%20Library

All of C-H fits on one film, but if there were multiple films for the records, they would be listed, indicating what each contains over what periods of times. Note when it says "Items 1-2" - there's more than one type of record on the film, and you may need to skip to the correct item to find the beginning of the records that you want.

For C-H, there is a camera with a key over it as well as a magnifying glass. There can also be a film reel.

Film reel is just what it means - at the Library, there is a physical roll of film. No good to you since you can't go to the library.

Magnifying glass means that it has been transcribed, and clicking on the magnifying glass will lead you to the record search option, but narrowed to the records indexed from that film.

Camera means that FS has made a digital copy of the film, and the copy could be viewed online BUT the key over it means that there's a restriction. Only by clicking on the camera (and signing in) can you know what the restriction is. FS is bound by the contract under which the records were granted access, so not all records may be accessed by everyone. Usually records that have restrictions to being viewed at the library may be seen at a local Family History Centre.