Two faceless grandads

[Searcher64]

Two faceless grandads Get your cuppa, or maybe something stronger, this is a little bit long-winded and possibly confusing.

My mum’s real dad. Horrid man and I shouldn’t want to find out about him but here goes. My nan was evacuated with my mum and her sister who was a year older than my mum. My grandad was a club owner in Soho and stayed in London. My nan and the two girls really lived in poverty and slept on the floor. When war was over, my nan went to his club to find him and was told he lived with another woman. Very nice posh house. I know my nan went there but I don’t know what exactly happened. Fast forward a few years, I’d say in late 40s, He’d arranged to take my mum’s sister out for the day. He took her and never returned! My nan did everything to find them but they vanished. Back then, it was very hard to trace people even with the police.

I know that my aunt found my nan when she was in her early 20s but disappeared because she was getting married and didn’t want my nan and adoptive mum together obviously. I’ve since found that she passed away in 1999. There is absolutely no record of my grandad anywhere, just his birth. It’s very strange. Both my nan and my mum have passed so don’t have any clue where he lived when my nan found him. Am I missing something or can people back then just ‘disappear’? I managed to get hold of the marriage certificate to see full name and the year he was born but there is nothing online. Mainly, I just would like a picture and closure.

My dad’s dad. Not nearly as confusing. Got records from birth to death. He had 10 other siblings, all deceased. All I want is a photo of him. Is there a way to find out if any of his siblings had children and grandchildren that may have a picture? Nobody seems to be working on my family and there were 10 other siblings. I’ve come to a dead end on both sides.

Hoping one of you lovely people can help with this ?

[garstonite]

if your mum and her sister were evacuated - what year was this ? and do you have them in the 1939 Register ? is the name in 1939 Register for your faceless Grandad the same as you have been told ?? ie - the name you can't find online ? if they have all passed - can you post the family house residents of 1939 - were there just the 4 ? Grandad / Nan your mum and her sister ?

[Jill on the A272]

It was quite easy to use another name and therefore be difficult to trace. If you are willing to put up his name and details I'm sure there will be people on the forum who would be willing to take a look for you. These threads can be picked up by search engines as well so someone else looking for your grandfather might find your query if they google his name. Do you know the name of his club at all?

As for tracing descendants of your other grandfather's siblings, I suggest you start a separate thread for him, do bear in mind that we cannot name living people on this forum, but members may well be able to point you in the right direction.

Many people have been able to use sites such as Ancestry or Find My Past via their county library service so this may be of help to you too.

[cbcarolyn]

You might be lucky in the newspapers particularly if he ran a club, it may have had crime/licensing etc going on.

One of the big subscription sites are the way to go I feel for any chance of a photo, and as Jill has pointed out a lot of libraries are offering free access due to covid, which may end soon. you can build your tree on Ancestry for free, as you have all the info, and it will tell you if there are others out there sharing the some trees, it just won't let you get much further without a subscription.

As they are both deceased you can start a thread for each of them, google does pick up the forum too, so you never know who may stumble across the threads that are searching.

[Searcher64]

Hi everyone. Thank you so much for all your responses ? I don’t know how to highlight and comment on each of your respective comments. I will deal with both grandfathers separately, as advised. This one is in relation to my mother’s dad. I’m on Ancestry on subscription, so have been able to get some bits. Also paid a ridiculous amount of money for the marriage certificate ?. This is all I have:

1911 Census shows WILLIAM JOHN HASLAM living with his mother and siblings at age 5.

Nothing else for him until his marriage to MARJORIE HELENA CHARRETIE in January 1940. On the certificate it shows they were living together at Frith Street, Soho and his occupation as club owner.

Their first daughter PATRICIA MARJORIE HASLAM was born in Kensington 14 May 1940 and my mother was born 19 Aug 1941 in Essex. I would imagine that was where my nan had been sent to. There are no other entries for anyone of the people mentioned until the 50s when my mum married my dad and in the 60s when Patricia married in Ealing.

Patricia disappears entirely after her marriage until she passes away in 1999 in Wales. Her father disappears from all records from when he married my nan in 1940. Prior to that, nothing since 1911. I’ve looked at school records for Patricia but I think maybe she had gone under a different name as she was stolen.

I remember sitting with my nan telling me about all this, even the name of the lady he’d lived with, but can’t remember it now . No idea the name of the club he owned. My last hope is I have a copy of their decree absolute Which was in the 50s just before my nan remarried. I wonder if there would be records of where he lived when divorce was made final?

Can anybody think of anything else? Something I’m missing? No records at all of a WILLIAM JOHN HASLAM passing away in London with same age as him. There are lots of deaths elsewhere though.

Thanks everyone ?

[cbcarolyn]

With regard to William John Haslam, what are you hoping to find? His death? or where he lived?

If the death is registered in the name of PATRICIA MARJORIE HASLAM I would have thought that she wouldn't have changed her name? What were you hoping to find for her also? Just some records of where she lived in her childhood? or if she married and had children?

There are electoral reg on Ancestry, which you probably know but never anything to say it is the one you are after. I will have a look in the newspapers later.

[Searcher64]

Hi Carolyn,

Thanks for your reply. I think it’s more a case of completeness with regard to my grandfather. All I have is birth and marriage with no end date. I think it could be my OCD ? I have to finish something or I don’t rest. Also, I would like to see what he looked like as my nan said my mother looked very similar.

With regard to Patricia, I have a picture of her from when she visited my nan in the 60s but wondered if she went on to have children when she married. If she did, then maybe her children would have pictures of their grandad.

I will continue with my search, and thank you all again for your replies ?

[cbcarolyn]

I looked around the newspapers, and found nothing at all. Do you know that the 1999 death for Patricia is the right one? And like you say William seems to have disappeared. He should be on the 1939 register and not found him, very odd.

Maybe someone else can find him.

[cbcarolyn]

Nothing else for him until his marriage to MARJORIE HELENA CHARRETIE in January 1940. On the certificate it shows they were living together at Frith Street, Soho and his occupation as club owner.

Thanks everyone ?

what was the number in Frith street?

[GallowayLass]

I haven’t found either of them on 1939 register (FMP version). I searched in London using the surnames with wildcards in case of misspellings but drew a blank.
What were their dates of birth?

[Searcher64]

Hi Carolyn and GallowayLass,

I have PM’d you both as I still can’t figure out how to capture your message and reply to it ? How do you do this?

Thanks

[GallowayLass]

Click on the three dots bottom right of the post you want to include in your reply. Pick the quote option and the system will give you a new box in which to write your response with the other post already copied in automatically.

[Searcher64]

Click on the three dots bottom right of the post you want to include in your reply. Pick the quote option and the system will give you a new box in which to write your response with the other post already copied in automatically.

Yay! Thanks so much ??

[Jill on the A272]

I looked at Frith Street, but didn't spot him. Do you know the number he lived at, or his date of birth? D.O.B. could help find him if he is using an alias, but then he may have been out of town when the 1939 was compiled.

[Searcher64]

I looked at Frith Street, but didn't spot him. Do you know the number he lived at, or his date of birth? D.O.B. could help find him if he is using an alias, but then he may have been out of town when the 1939 was compiled.

Hi Jill,

Thank you very much for looking him up for me. It was 17 Frith Street, W1 in 1940. He was born 2nd quarter of 1905 in Holborn, London. It really is a puzzle, isn’t it? He literally disappears into thin air after 1940. No death, no departures to another country, nothing

Thanks in advance x

[Jill on the A272]

There are three households at number 17 in 1939, John M Barry born 7 Sept 1897 Restaurant Proprietor and one other person who has been redacted as they may still be living.
The next household are Graham, Betsy and Joseph Lazarovitch in the tailoring trade and the third are Anthony and Anna Aluini [?] gents hairdresser & wife, so it looks like your grandfather was not yet in residence.

[Jill on the A272]

On post war electoral rolls I can only see people with Greek names from 1949 then Chinese from 1952.

[Searcher64]

There are three households at number 17 in 1939, John M Barry born 7 Sept 1897 Restaurant Proprietor and one other person who has been redacted as they may still be living.
The next household are Graham, Betsy and Joseph Lazarovitch in the tailoring trade and the third are Anthony and Anna Aluini [?] gents hairdresser & wife, so it looks like your grandfather was not yet in residence.

Oh wow! How did you manage that? ? Not through Ancestry? I didn’t know you could search a specific address. Anyway, sadly it’s none of those but then given what he later went on to do, he might not have registered, lied or they had just moved there in Jan 1940.

Thank you, Jill. You really are good at this ?

[cbcarolyn]

Oh wow! How did you manage that? ? Not through Ancestry? I didn’t know you could search a specific address. Anyway, sadly it’s none of those but then given what he later went on to do, he might not have registered, lied or they had just moved there in Jan 1940.

Thank you, Jill. You really are good at this ?

Findmypast does offer a property search. On Ancestry you can search the record collection and use the keyword and tick exact box. You can also add county etc on the lived in box. 19139 and 1911 census work quite well, older ones are a bit hit and miss

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61596/

[Searcher64]

On post war electoral rolls I can only see people with Greek names from 1949 then Chinese from 1952.

Thanks Jill. My other thought is that he knew when electoral rolls were carried out and just moved around to avoid them. He owned a club and I have a vague recollection of him having amusements somewhere, could be wrong about that. He was obviously very careful to avoid being tracked down by anybody. He lived with another woman while my grandmother lived in poverty with two young children, kidnapped his own daughter and even managed to die in secret

Thank you again, Jill. Sorry, ignore my ranting ?