William Woodward - please help me sort this out

[cbcarolyn]

I did go through the census for West Hyde, as there are very few pages, as I could see that they were married there and that Hayley was baptised there in same year as census. So think they are either the Robinsons, or they have gone somewhere bizarre, or been missed off.

It seemed to fit

[teasie]

I could see that they were married there and that Hayley was baptised there in same year as census.

I must have missed that baptism - where can I find it?

EDIT - scrap that, I realise you meant Julia

[cbcarolyn]

I must have missed that baptism - where can I find it?

now you are asking - from memory, I didn't save it, I think on Ancestry and only a transcription - no exact address. Actually it must have been Julia as she is the 1871 child.

Yes sorry for the confusion - was just focussing on 1871, it was Julia

[teasie]

Thank you, teasie, I have been looking at it again today and like you, I can see a lot of reasons why it could be right but I can also see reasons why it could be wrong. I will look again tomorrow and see whether family Robinson exist in the previous or subsequent censuses. If they don’t then I think I will accept that this is in fact the Rawlinson family.

It may also be worth obtaining the birth certificate for what I believe may be "Emily Robinson" (Rawlinson):

WOODWARD, EMMA (no mmn) GRO Reference: 1862 M Quarter in WATFORD UNION Volume 03A Page 301

Per post #7, an Emily Woodward aged 19 married Lawrence Thomas Sanger in Feb 1881, and in the 1881 census she gives her PoB as West Hyde. By 1891 their surname changes from Sanger to Anderson

[Gardengirl]

Thank you again, I will have another look and follow up all those leads. And if Emily / Emma is their child she would be the missing one from the 1911 census which says that they had 10 children but 3 had died.

Off to the GRO again for me this morning.... could be time to buy a certificate.

[Gardengirl]

Certificate ordered. Fingers crossed!

[Darksecretz]

Thank you, Lin, that worked. I have the surname as Rawlinson without the g so Ancestry didn't pick up Rawlingson even though I had it on 'sounds like'.

Sometimes I find that less is definitely more, I never put in the full surname, always wildcard it Raw**** or Tay*** Brad*** etc.. if you put an exact year try +/- 2yrs or sometimes 5yrs.

also if you tick the 'exact' box I often find that it doesn't bring up anything as it tries too hard and falls on it's rear.

Hopefully this helps.

[Gardengirl]

I spent hours on this yesterday hoping it would help me clarify things but in fact it just got worse! My plan was to sort out the West Hyde families and see if that 1861 entry was a real family Robinson or a mis-transcription of Rawlinson.

First I found the baptism register (Bishops transcript I think) for West Hyde (60 pages long lasting from 1845-1905) and went through it page by page noting any entries which had Woodward, Rawlinson, Robinson and anything similar. It felt just like the old days at the record office scrolling through the microfilm, squinting at the screen and scribbling away in my notebook.

I put them all into a spreadsheet so I could sort by name, dates, parents names etc then used FreeBMD to find the most likely birth registrations for each of them. A few were ambiguous but most were quite straightforward.
Then I used that information to search the GRO indexes to find the MMNs and that is where the anomalies started to appear So now I am more baffled than I was yesterday morning and would appreciate any further thoughts about how to untangle it all.

Here's a couple of screen shots from the spreadsheet to show what I mean.

Excel snip 1.JPG
EDIT to above - have just done some more double checking and found the correct Julia's birth reg at GRO Watford 3a 404 MMN Woodward.


Excel snip 2.JPG

excel snip 3.JPG

[Gardengirl]

And this is the Robinson family

excel snip 4.JPG

[Darksecretz]

GG have you trawled the 1871 census for West Hyde?

[Darksecretz]

There is a Joseph Rawlingson on the 1871 b. 1816 Rickmansworth. [page 13 I think it was]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/HRTRG10_1382_1385-0353?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

[Darksecretz]

GG have you trawled the 1871 census for West Hyde?

I have just been through all 23 pages for WH 1871 census, the only family that looks anything like is the Robinson Family already mentioned. There is a Julia that is about 3 months but she is with her grandparents and her surname is RILEY.

It might be that only some of the children's births were not registered [esp if before the 1875 act] or that the children used 'other names' from those that they were baptised/christened with.

it might be that there were parallel families same children's names same birth reg districts etc.. and it is purely a coincidence.

[Gardengirl]

GG have you trawled the 1871 census for West Hyde?

Yes, and so has Carolyn (post #21). The Joseph and Sarah that you found are the parents of the family that I am looking for. This is them from the baptism records (ignore the last one, George, I think he must be a red herring).

excel snip 5.JPG

The family that I can't find in 1871 are William Charles bap 1845 and his wife Mary Ann (Woodward) and their children William b1865, Ellen b 1867, Louisa Elizabeth b 1868 and Julia b 1871 who I believe are the family in the first screen shot in post #28.

[Gardengirl]

More double triple checking and I have found the other Julia MMN Woodward in the GRO index so I have put an edit in my earlier post and posted the corrected spreadsheet here.

excel snip 6.JPG

Mary Ann Woodward (the mother of this family) had an illegitimate son called William in 1865. I have the birth certificate for him and know from family information that he continued to be known as William Woodward even though he also called himself William Rawlinson. Looking at the above baptisms, I am wondering if after Harriet was baptised they realised that William had never been baptised so arranged to have him done as well. This would explain why there is no corresponding birth registration for him near the baptism date.

As for the errors in the surnames, I think the person transcribing by hand from the church copy to the BT copy was tired and getting muddled after a long session of transcribing and just got the surnames mixed up - its easily done as we all know.

[Gardengirl]

OK, it's humble pie time. I'm such a numpty sometimes. I've been looking for a family with a daughter called Ellen even though I have it on screen in front of me that Ellen died aged 2 months in 1867.

For what its worth, I do think the 'Robinson' family is the correct one. They have a daughter Louisa born c1868, and there is no other Louisa R*son born Watford RD around the right time.

'Haley' is 3-months old, and there is only one female R*son birth registered Watford RD Q1 1871 - Julia Rawlinson.

Bear in mind that (apart from the 1911) the census we see isn't the original as written, but what was copied over from the household schedule by the enumerator, and therefore liable to have plenty of errors and 'best guesses' at bad handwriting.

teasie I'm sorry to have gone round in so many circles reaching the same conclusion as you but I think I have to go with this as being the Rawlinson family. Put it down to inexperience on my part but often I really can't see how things join up and much as I would like to just accept things, I am a person who needs to understand what I am being told.

Thank you again for your help and to everyone else that has been searching too.

[cbcarolyn]

Guess you will never prove 100% as the census had very few names of cottages, so not an actual 'address', I presume birth cert of Julia will just say West Hyde too. I didn't check the 1871 to the 1881 and see if the neighbours were the same - did you do that? Clearly they could have moved to another cottage in the village.

[Gardengirl]

That's a good thought, Carolyn, I'll go and check the neighbours.

William Rawlinson senior had a bit of a reputation for being a heavy drinker and possibly didn't have many teeth either so I have been conjuring up a wonderful image in my head of the enumerator asking him questions and getting very slurred answers - hence the 'inaccuracies'

This is the one and only photo we have of him

William Woodward b1845 (Large).jpg

Proud to call him one of mine!

[Darksecretz]

OK, it's humble pie time. I'm such a numpty sometimes. I've been looking for a family with a daughter called Ellen even though I have it on screen in front of me that Ellen died aged 2 months in 1867.



teasie I'm sorry to have gone round in so many circles reaching the same conclusion as you but I think I have to go with this as being the Rawlinson family. Put it down to inexperience on my part but often I really can't see how things join up and much as I would like to just accept things, I am a person who needs to understand what I am being told.

Thank you again for your help and to everyone else that has been searching too.

Don't beat yourself up about it.. we have all been there and I'm like you, I like to understand the whys and wherefores.. FWIW I do think that Rollinson/Rawlinson/Robinson all sound very much alike and throw in an accent and boom.. lovely mistranscriptions...

[Gardengirl]

And then someone (thanks, Carolyn ) suggests that you check out the neighbours and off we go down another rabbit hole ! Fascinating neighbours in 1871 - apparently living in farm workers buildings beside Pinesfield Farm where the Head of Household says he is Agent for ?? & ?? farming 700 acres employing 34 labs and 6 boys.

Better save that for another day...

Although I might just quickly google Pinesfield Farm, West Hyde - just for a quick teeny tiny peak to see if it is still there

[cbcarolyn]

Well here is an interesting site

https://pubwiki.co.uk/HertsPubs/Rick...reyhound.shtml

As usual there were many pubs in a small place! Guess that may have been half his problem!

Anchor & Hope / Crown & Anchor, Batchworth, Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire
Cross Keys, West Hyde, Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire
Dumbell, West Hyde, Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire
Fishermans Inn, Harefield Valley, West Hyde, Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire
Greyhound, West Hyde, Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire
Jolly Gardeners, West Hyde, Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire
Maple Cross, West Hyde, Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire
Royal Oak, West Hyde. Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire