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    Message on a postcard

    Can anyone make sense of the bit of writing in this message between the inverted commas? The card was from My granny to my grandpa before they got married in 1914. They were concert party performers at the time so I don’t know if it might be words from a song?


    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

    #2
    "What do you think of me on the other side,"
    How I used to look two years ago.
    ^What piece the bday's naughty tat-ta"!
    Hope you can keep yourself warm this weather
    Yours Sincerely
    Ruby

    Not sure about piece and bdays'

    Off hand, I'd wonder if it was a birthday card with the type of laughter/teasing about adding a couple of years. Did they have a period when they were apart?
    ------------------------------------------------------
    My Families
    London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
      "What do you think of me on the other side,"
      How I used to look two years ago.
      ^What piece the bday's naughty tat-ta"!
      Hope you can keep yourself warm this weather
      Yours Sincerely
      Ruby

      Not sure about piece and bdays'

      Off hand, I'd wonder if it was a birthday card with the type of laughter/teasing about adding a couple of years. Did they have a period when they were apart?
      It was that bit in the middle that didn’t make sense. The rest is pretty straightforward.
      Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

      Comment


        #4
        Could it be “what price” - some sort of reference to the “saxpence”/sixpence pun on the picture side of the card?

        Christine
        Researching:
        HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

        Comment


          #5
          Could what looks like b'hay just be "boy" with a 'h' just be a slip of the pen?

          Then it would read
          What price the boy's naughty tat-ta"
          ------------------------------------------------------
          My Families
          London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

          Comment


            #6
            That is what I was thinking too, PF. It looks a bit strange but it does make sense.
            Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

            Comment


              #7
              Found these references to a music hall song mentioning tat-ta. Cleverer minds than me might find the connection!

              https://tredwellsmusic.com/put-on-yo...k-out-of-print

              https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R139664-P...-/274039732291

              Edit
              just found the full song sheet on Trove but it's hard to read on my ipad.
              https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-177192310...ge/n4/mode/1up
              Phil
              historyhouse.co.uk
              Essex - family and local history.

              Comment


                #8
                Good finds, keldon, but I can’t see the connection either. I followed your thoughts and looked up that song and found these lyrics...
                PUT ON YOUR TAT-TA LITTLE GIRLIE
                Johnny loved a pretty girl on whom he used to call
                And he thought the girl that fact would like to know
                How to break the news to her he'd no idea at all
                And he let no end of splendid chances go
                "Best thing I can do," said he, "Is take her for a stroll
                To propose indoors is hardly right
                What you want's a place with no one near you, not a soul
                So I think I'll say when I call round tonight

                Chorus: "Put on your tat-ta little girlie, do what I want you to
                Far from the busy hurly burly, I've got lots to say to you
                My head's completely twirly whirly, my girl I want you to be
                So put on your tat-ta your pretty little tat-ta
                And come out a tat-ta with me"


                Johnny called that evening, but had scarcely said his say
                When a heavy shower of rain began to fall
                "Can't go out in this" exclaimed the girl in blank dismay
                "It would simply spoil my tat-ta once for all
                Let's stay in the parlour, John, it's nice and comfy here
                And we'll both sit in the cosy corner seat
                If it's fine tomorrow I'll be dressed and ready dear
                Should you care your invitation to repeat

                Chorus:

                Some men are backward in proposing, so they say
                But if She's made up her mind that He's the one
                Let him merely show the will, she'll soon find out the way
                And before he's quite aware of it, it's done
                Johnny and the girl sat in the parlour quite a while
                But to tell you all they said would be a shame
                Since that night he seems to wear an everlasting smile
                And no more has special reason to exclaim

                Chorus:
                I’m none the wiser
                Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Is there a west coast of Scotland - Ireland link to the sender and receiver of the postcard?
                  Saxpence is a Scots version of sixpence - sax meaning six eg. our first joint monarch in English is referred to as James the sixth and first. In Scots he was known as Jamie Saxt. I wonder also about such a connection as I think the word boy is spelled bhoy which has connections to the Glasgow area and in particular those of the RC faith with roots in Eire. The boy is dressed in a green outfit apart from his ginormous Tam o’ Shanter bonnet.
                  I have absolutely no idea what a ‘naughty tat-ta’ is - the mind boggles

                  Comment


                    #10
                    my Dad used to say are you coming out "tats" - completely forgotten he said that, meaning coming outside I think, like for a walk. I will have to ask him, he probably won't remember now or hear me!
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                      #11
                      hee hee - just googled it
                      https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Phra...ion321160.html

                      https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/60/messages/724.html


                      although no one seems to know why or where - they just said it
                      Last edited by cbcarolyn; 22-02-21, 23:08.
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                        Could what looks like b'hay just be "boy" with a 'h' just be a slip of the pen?

                        Then it would read
                        What price the boy's naughty tat-ta"
                        Yes, I thought it was bhoy’s too rather than b’day - there’s no apostrophe after the initial b on the postcard. Just using context in the lyrics quoted upthread, tat-ta seems to mean hat/cap so “what price the boy’s hat?”...

                        Christine
                        Researching:
                        HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I have to say I don't even understand the postcard picture
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                            I have to say I don't even understand the postcard picture
                            I think she’s just banged the tambourine which is now held out for a donation - and he is reaching into his pocket for sixpence.
                            Bit of a weird choice of subject matter for a picture postcard but there’s no accounting for taste!

                            Christine
                            Researching:
                            HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

                              I think she’s just banged the tambourine which is now held out for a donation - and he is reaching into his pocket for sixpence.
                              Bit of a weird choice of subject matter for a picture postcard but there’s no accounting for taste!

                              Christine
                              I agree he’s digging in his pocket for a sixpence to see some performance or other by the girl and possibly also the dog but the handwritten reference to the price on the back of the card puzzles me. Even if we can be sure what all the words actually are, the sentence as written makes no sense. The lyrics of the song don’t help much either. I can’t get what tat-ta is meant to be a euphemism for as the lyrics are badly constructed.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Here's the song, for what its worth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlsues3NBb4

                                I thought it said "what price the Chay's naughty tat-ta" and thought it might be a reference to an act, or a couple named Chay (surname) who did a naughty version of the song?

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Lots of interesting thoughts there. Thank you all.

                                  My mind is full of images of them, pre marriage and involved in music hall. I have recently listened to the BBC Home Front series where there was a story line about concert hall people and also bits about young men offering money to pretty girls just for a kiss. I wonder if she was making a covert reference to them having some elicit kisses at the end of an evening. Maybe she thinks he got more than his sixpenny worth the night before? The tat-ta bit is still confusing but seems connected with going out, saying goodbye and maybe ‘put on your tat-ta’ in the song is some kind of hat or coat for ‘walking out’ - although I’m surprised that hasn’t come up in any of our searches.

                                  There is no Scottish connection, both families are firmly London based, but I still think that the word bhoy’s is just a slip of the pen.

                                  It still doesn’t quite add up though, does it?
                                  Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I've changed my mind and agree it's bhoys, but I don't think its a slip of the pen. There was a music hall song called "One Of The Bhoys", and I noticed in 1910 an advert in The Stage referencing Keen & Karl (the Bhoys) who were seeking character comedians. Another advert in The Stage 14 Oct 1915 references a Harold Beaumont "lately entertaining the Bhoys in France"

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Well found, Teasie. I think the whole thing must just be a bit of a private joke between them based on their knowledge of music hall songs of the day.

                                      How very formal that she signed it Yours Sincerely. Maybe it was early on in their friendship.

                                      This is them - Ruby front right and Bert in the middle

                                      Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I was always under the impression that “bhoy” was an Irish or Scottish slang spelling of “boy”.

                                        And, incidentally in my day the standard way of ending a letter (unless it was a love letter) was the use of Yours sincerely.

                                        We have tended to forget this as no one writes letters anymore.
                                        Whoever said Seek and Ye shall find was not a genealogist.

                                        David

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