Deciphering comments on a record.

[bubblebelle]

Can anyone read what these comments are on the end of a Royal Navy military document please.

Valentine muller military (3).jpg Valentine muller military.jpg


Please don't worry about trying to follow this man, he is one I dip in and out of and am in the process of writing his story up for the 52 Ancestors in 52 Weeks. I just cannot interpret these comments, which is a bit ironic as his occupation is an 'Interpreter'.

Thank you.

[Lin Fisher]

Hi, have looked at it and sorry I don't have a clue what it says apart from the date.

Sorry and hope someone else is better than me.

[Karamazov]

No knowledge of this whatsoever, other than I think I remember seeing somewhere that seamen were issued with a new suit of clothing if they signed up for 10 years continuous service. So could the second column be “New SC (meaning set or suit of clothing?) to Iphigenia 8/11/05
Next line seems to start £257 but that would be a huge amount back then, even if he was kitted out by a Savile Row tailor so it could be some sort of abbreviation? Or does it mean that he received a total of £257 in clothing/bedding gratuities between 1905 and 1915 (date at end of 2nd line)
Bear in mind that I really haven’t a clue, just hazarding a guess and may be totally wide of the mark. Perhaps someone who is more familiar with naval records will come along and help...

Christine

[fran]

Could Iphigenia be the name of a ship? just read that it is! Silly me

[bubblebelle]

Thank you everyone, especially Christine re the information re the provision of clothing, which is interesting in it's own right. I see that he was allocated to shore work so may or may not have required dress uniform.

Once again thank you.

[cbcarolyn]

can't read it either - but wondering if the clothing &bedding title is a red herring, are they just 2 areas on the form as a double line between that and remarks? so these are just remarks.

or even 2 sets of remarks

Did find it on ancestry to see what everyone else's looked like! But didn't shed any light other than some are filled in for each part of the form

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60522/images/43283_adm_188_217-0335?treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=RcU132&_phstart=successSource&pId=578908

[bubblebelle]

Thanks Carolyn, I had done much the same re trying to get an idea of what it could refer to. Yet another one in my tree who has given me a headache over the years.
From the dates I would think he was still alive in 1915 which at least precludes an earlier death, for a similar name.

[cbcarolyn]

the top half of the form seems to say service ended in 06 - do you think the last comment is perhaps money going to someone on his death? in 1915

[bubblebelle]

Hmm. Something to ponder on. His wife and children all moved to Canada between 1900-1908, names wouldn't fit with letters I can recognise. Grr I thought I may have sorted the different Valentine's I have found, now I'm doubting myself again. I think I need to check them again.

[grumpy]

The navies personnel record is a simple record of a persons service record and is divided up into several columns as follows.

Ship served in, Ships book number, rating, GC badges, Period of service, Time, Character, If discharged, Remarks.

From this we can see that Valentine William Muller served on HMS Satellite, Book no 5 ledger no 165, Domestic 1st Class, 12 nov 89 to 22 apl 90, Character Very Good on 31-12-89 and 22-4-90. Discharged shore services not required.

The record from the Iphigenia is much the same.

The rating Domestic 1st class is one I don’t fully understand, it is not used these days, but may refer to an largely untrained recruit.

The last entry is a little puzzling as to where there was an entry of $257 for clothing and bedding as it apparently was entered in 1915,
a long time since he left the navy. Maybe it was just admin catching up with him, the wheels turn slowly in the services.

Hope this helps, from an old sailor (very).

[bubblebelle]

Thank you very much Grumpy, that is a great help. With an occupation of 'Interpreter' I wonder if this was his role within the service and perhaps why I misread 'Shore based' as that was what I wanted to see. This information is, believe it or not, a step forward, now I am waiting for the 2 steps back.

[cbcarolyn]

Thank you very much Grumpy, that is a great help. With an occupation of 'Interpreter' I wonder if this was his role within the service and perhaps why I misread 'Shore based' as that was what I wanted to see. This information is, believe it or not, a step forward, now I am waiting for the 2 steps back.

you don't have any other records on career in Navy, nothing on TNA whilst it is free?

[cbcarolyn]

I hadn't spotted interpreter, do you think he was some kind of reserve this was just a record when he went to sea when required? Or was he in Navy all the time but shore based most of the time?

what was his job on the census?

I see that they got extra pay for being an interpreter

https://sites.rootsweb.com/~pbtyc/Navy_List_1879/Interpreters.html

[bubblebelle]

Yes there is a record on TNA, I thought it would be the same as the one on Ancestry, as you say it may be worth accessing whilst it is free, in case it is different.

This is yet another on-going saga and a distant link in my family. I have been dipping in and out of his story for over 10 years now. With an upcoming 52 ancestor title of Valentine, he came to mind. I am trying to work through a couple of Valentine Muller's, whether they are one and the same or two seperate men.

A very quick precis

1890 marriage, occ Detective
1891 census occ Interpreter
1895 marriage Interpreter
Baptisms of 2 children occ Interpreter
1901 census missing
1900 wife travels to Canada alone
1901 wife and daughter emigrate to Canada
1908 8 year old son joins them in Canada

1907 a different Valentine, a porter dies but leaves £2600 in probate record. Hence why I was interested in the 1915 comment.

There is a Valentine Muller travelling to and from the US described as a manufacturer, however there is also a Valentine Muller also living in the US.

[Karamazov]

What are wife and children’s names and where did they go to in Canada?

Christine

[bubblebelle]

Please don't worry about them Christine, I have followed them right through to their eventual deaths in the US and why my first post only related to the military record. Valentine is not found with them at any point and by the 1911 Canadian census the wife cites she is a widow, but this may be a red herring for appearances sake.

I'm not being vague on purpose just don't want to waste people's time, looking up what I already have. None the less many thanks to both you and Carolyn, who I forgot to thank for the link re Interpreters pay.

[cbcarolyn]

the 1901 census could be a bit of an answer to see what his occupation is.

Not been much of a help, but sometimes useful to state what I am seeing, as I know easy to miss things, I have done it before.

[Karamazov]

Please don't worry about them Christine, I have followed them right through to their eventual deaths in the US and why my first post only related to the military record. Valentine is not found with them at any point and by the 1911 Canadian census the wife cites she is a widow, but this may be a red herring for appearances sake.

I'm not being vague on purpose just don't want to waste people's time, looking up what I already have. None the less many thanks to both you and Carolyn, who I forgot to thank for the link re Interpreters pay.

That’s ok - I just thought they might help getting a fix on your Valentine, but it sounds like you’ve already explored that avenue.
I couldn’t work out whether the £257 payment which was signed off in 1915 was assigned to a named person. If we could decipher that with any confidence it might give you a way forward...

Christine

[cbcarolyn]

Karamazov I think it says 'to' someone too.

Navy records seem to be lacking for him

[bubblebelle]

Yes I agree, it looks like Ellan or Lilian, but wife and daughter both Rhoda and son..... yes you've guessed it Valentine.
I did wonder re the son being in UK until 1908, in 1901 he is a boarder with the Colgate family, although the transcription reads brother in law. When travelling to Canada he is with relatives of Rhoda. But if the Valentine who died in 1907 was the Valentine in question it would make sense. Having said that the Valentine who died in 1907 was married to a Jessie Broszt according to records, so I really don't think they are the same man. The Probate record is just for probate so no help. I have even resorted to comparing all 3 marriage record signatures!
I agree the 1901 or 1911 census would be helpful. All I have found otherwise are admissions to workhouse infirmary and an electoral roll entry. The Infirmary admission could be either man, but interestingly he is admitted as 'insane' but a week later discharged by the magistrates.
Newspapers are no help unfortunately there is a ship Valentine Muller and an actor named Muller played a character named Valentine. This man really does cover his tracks and why I think I am so interested in him.