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    #21
    Bubblebelle,
    Have you seen this tree on Ancestry? (For all I know it could be you...)
    The tree owner has been quite scrupulous outlining the various possibles/hypotheses and associated records re various possible Valentines - no wonder you’re struggling to get a handle on him! It’s intriguing though...I don’t think you can take that Feb 1869 DOB on the navy record as gospel! Ages in records, even when they are clearly referring to the same man, are slippery! Eg see discrepancies (which the tree owner itemises) between 1890 1st marriage and 1891 census. See also the comments bubble.
    I’m using Ancestry library edition so I hope I’ve adjusted the url correctly.
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...10206459/facts

    Christine

    Researching:
    HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

    Comment


      #22
      Well, I will Put in my tuppence once again. I would far prefer a navy statement of birth on a record than anything that Ancestry can come up. I have seen so many mistakes from that organisation over the years that most of the time I double check and triple check anything that they put up as gospel. Remember, the date of birth is coming from an original and whilst I acknowledge that the enlistee could have told a lie to the recruiting officer it is normal for them to insist on a birth certificate or some such proof of birth.
      I know that that was a requirement 75 years ago.
      Whoever said Seek and Ye shall find was not a genealogist.

      David

      Comment


        #23
        Yes thank you Christine, over the years we have contacted and discussed with each other, come up with all sort of ideas and theories, it was the military record that had the 1915 entry which was a new resource to me and was of significant interest within all this.
        Thank you Grumpy. Yes, 1869, seems the most common year of birth identified amongst various documents.
        Bubblebelle x

        FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

        Comment


          #24
          he is a slippery fish then. At least one of the census has interpreter on it. Did you get the will of suggested father as so cheap now?
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


            #25
            Just looking at Arnolds death - wonder if they traced any relatives on his will? guess you did that, quite a lot of money left.
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


              #26
              No Carolyn, I haven't sent for any certificates, but you have really confused me with the name Arnold, I have not come across that name. He really is very distant to me, My Great Grandmother's, sisters, husbands, brother in law. It is just another of those stories that have captured my imagination over the years. Similarly with the lady who's tree Christine suggested.

              As I have said, he will feature for my 52 Ancestors Valentine, so I am sorting out my facts again and when I came across the military entry remarks.

              I am also in contact with a lady who recently got in contact re another of these really distant relatives that I became really involved with, so I am making my head ache trying to remember who what where and when on this thread and her story too.

              Thank you everyone who has helped.
              Bubblebelle x

              FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by bubblebelle View Post
                but you have really confused me with the name Arnold, I have not come across that name.
                Arnold Muller - he is a purported brother of Valentine, according to the ancestry tree I mentioned earlier, according to which he died in Wallasey in 1937.

                Christine
                Researching:
                HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                Comment


                  #28
                  Yes from the tree that Christine linked to, possible father

                  Charles Melchior Muller worked in Liverpool and lived in Wallasey

                  and possible brother

                  Arnold Muller

                  both of them have wills, and looks like Arnold left his affairs to be dealt with by the bank, didn't seem to have any direct relatives. So thought maybe there reference to nieces and nephews.

                  At £1.50 thought it might be interesting I would be tempted, just to see if it solved a puzzle.

                  It might the wrong family completely.
                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Ah thanks. Yes may be worth a punt. Will let you know how it goes.

                    Ordered but unsure how helpful they will be Arnold and Johanna both indicate Probate.
                    Bubblebelle x

                    FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      I just wanted to update people above who helped.
                      Can you believe the wills came through Late Friday afternoon. They helped, in that I think I can discount. Frederick William Muller, brother of Arnold and Valentine being one and the same.
                      I also sent for the will of Valentine Muller who died in 1907, just on the off chance, he too can be discounted.
                      Something that came up when I was writing his story is whether the date of monetary funds on 6th August 1915 may have been significant, as a Bill re internment of German/Hungarian and Austrian nationals of military service age, was passed on the 7th.

                      At the end of all this I have not really moved forward, except for perhaps discounting some information.

                      I am just tweaking my blog story but if anyone is interested I will add the link within the writers forum once it is published. Hopefully tomorrow. Once again thank you.
                      Bubblebelle x

                      FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Originally posted by bubblebelle View Post
                        I just wanted to update people above who helped.
                        Can you believe the wills came through Late Friday afternoon. They helped, in that I think I can discount. Frederick William Muller, brother of Arnold and Valentine being one and the same.
                        I also sent for the will of Valentine Muller who died in 1907, just on the off chance, he too can be discounted.
                        Something that came up when I was writing his story is whether the date of monetary funds on 6th August 1915 may have been significant, as a Bill re internment of German/Hungarian and Austrian nationals of military service age, was passed on the 7th.

                        At the end of all this I have not really moved forward, except for perhaps discounting some information.

                        I am just tweaking my blog story but if anyone is interested I will add the link within the writers forum once it is published. Hopefully tomorrow. Once again thank you.
                        well at least it stops you looking at them wondering, the tree on ancestry that has him as the same chap, is on the wrong path, so seems to have lost their original Frederick William Muller.
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment

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