Descendants of travellers

[Gmelliottuk]

Hi, I'm new here so hopefully I've posted in the correct place.......

Whilst researching my wife's tree we were initially stuck at the fact that an ancestor was seemingly missing from the 1911 census when she should really be on it, being born in 1903.

Having searched through records we finally came across both her marriage record and her birth record. Both listed her name as Doris Rogers Huteson.

On her birth certificate im the Sheffield records, her forenames were listed as Doris Rogers, with Huteson her surname, but no father was listed. Her mother was named as Annie. We assumed that the father was not known.

However, when looking at the marriage certificate to William Jennings Naylor, her father was listed as Joseph Rogers, with his occupation being shown as 'Traveller'.

Was there a rule that travellers could not be named on birth records? She obviously took her mother's surname, but they wanted to recognise the fact her father was a Rogers by including it as her middle name.

In addition to Doris on 1903, there was also as Joseph Rogers Huteson in 1905, so clearly if the father was travelling so to speak, he must have returned.

I cannot find any of Annie, Doris or Joseph on the 1911 census, certainly not under Huteson anyway. None of the Rogers entries seem to fit either. I can only assume they were of no fixed abode and part of the travelling community until Doris came back to be married in the 1920's.

Not really sure where we go from here.

[PhotoFamily]

Welcome to ftf!

I don't have answers for you, but I hope others will chime in who helped me on this thread, which dealt with my Rogers who also used Boswell, which might also be an interesting read for you.
https://www.familytreeforum.com/foru...seph-rogers-go

[annette.humphreys]

I believe I've identified who Annie Huteson was - she was 10/4/1884 Scunthorpe, Lincs. daughter of Jim Huteson and Eliza Ducker (married 1882) Thorne, Yorkshire. By 1891 family had moved to London but Jim (bc.1861 Scunthorpe) died and death recorded as James Huteson in Sept.1896 Pancras, London. Around 6 months later his widow Eliza remarried to a John Wheeler in Mar.qtr.1897 Sheffield. In 1901 'Annie' is working as a servant in Sheffield but shown as Ann.

Whoever Joseph Rogers was the couple don't appear to have remained together. In 1911 Annie is shown as a visitor to a family surnamed Green in Lincoln (all shown as born Sheffield), still single. No trace of her 2 children who I suspect were probably 'in care' either in a school or orphanage and only listed by initials. Annie is still single in Sheffield in 1939 Register, shown as a housekeeper. She died in Sheffield in Dec.qtr.1962.

If a couple weren't married the child's natural father can't be shown on the birth certificate unless both parents go together to register the birth so nothing to do with Joseph being a traveller.

Annette

[kylejustin]

Agree with annette, more likely to be an illegitimate birth rather than the father's occupation or ethnic origins. Also quite possible father's name was made up on marriage record to conceal illegitimacy from in laws.

[cbcarolyn]

my travelling sales family, did have both parents names, and were my only family that continually swapped between the 2 name.

I don't know the answer to this - but do wonder if it is more common to not marry in 'law', and they just have their own ceremony?

[Gmelliottuk]

Wow, thanks for the speedy replies. I did find a lot of those records listed above, but was struggling to tie them together. It seems that Annie / Ann Huteson wasn't the only one born in Lincolnshire at the same or similar time. Certianly Huteson's seem to be concentrated around Scunthorpe and Hull, so assume they are all related somewhere along the line.

I did suspect the correct one was the one listed from Althorpe, as there were other Huteson's from that area who ended up as servants or workers in Sheffield.

The 1901 census record is very interesting as she is listed as working in a pub. I know the area well where that pub stood and have found a photo of it shortly before it was demolished, with what is presumably the staff and punters outside. The name above the door matches the landlord listed on the census. There's a real possibility she may be on that photograph.

Cheers

[Gmelliottuk]

Forgot to mention, a bit of research into travellers in Sheffield showed a well known travellers site called Cambridge Grounds, which was around a half an hour walk from the pub where Ann Huteson was seemingly living, so ties in very nicely.

The bit that does confuse me a little is that with there being 2 children with the Rogers Huteson name 2 years apart, Ann and Joseph must have been more involved than just a quick fling. That was what made me wonder whether they were all together travelling. The lack of records for the kids in 1911 is frustrating.

[Gmelliottuk]

I believe I've identified who Annie Huteson was - she was 10/4/1884 Scunthorpe, Lincs. daughter of Jim Huteson and Eliza Ducker (married 1882) Thorne, Yorkshire. By 1891 family had moved to London but Jim (bc.1861 Scunthorpe) died and death recorded as James Huteson in Sept.1896 Pancras, London. Around 6 months later his widow Eliza remarried to a John Wheeler in Mar.qtr.1897 Sheffield. In 1901 'Annie' is working as a servant in Sheffield but shown as Ann.

Whoever Joseph Rogers was the couple don't appear to have remained together. In 1911 Annie is shown as a visitor to a family surnamed Green in Lincoln (all shown as born Sheffield), still single. No trace of her 2 children who I suspect were probably 'in care' either in a school or orphanage and only listed by initials. Annie is still single in Sheffield in 1939 Register, shown as a housekeeper. She died in Sheffield in Dec.qtr.1962.

If a couple weren't married the child's natural father can't be shown on the birth certificate unless both parents go together to register the birth so nothing to do with Joseph being a traveller.

Annette

Annette, do you have the record for the 1911 entry where she was with the Green's? I cannot find it on Findmypast.

Thanks

Gareth

[cbcarolyn]

Wow, thanks for the speedy replies. I did find a lot of those records listed above, but was struggling to tie them together. It seems that Annie / Ann Huteson wasn't the only one born in Lincolnshire at the same or similar time. Certianly Huteson's seem to be concentrated around Scunthorpe and Hull, so assume they are all related somewhere along the line.

I did suspect the correct one was the one listed from Althorpe, as there were other Huteson's from that area who ended up as servants or workers in Sheffield.

The 1901 census record is very interesting as she is listed as working in a pub. I know the area well where that pub stood and have found a photo of it shortly before it was demolished, with what is presumably the staff and punters outside. The name above the door matches the landlord listed on the census. There's a real possibility she may be on that photograph.

Cheers

photo sounds like a great find.

[cbcarolyn]

this is the 1911 census - born in Scunthorpe

Street Address: 425 High St Lincoln
Marital status: Single
Registration District: Lincoln
Registration District Number: 418
Sub-registration District: Lincoln Home
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 19730

[Gmelliottuk]

Thanks. Shows at Hutson on Findmypast so didn't appear in my search results

[Anne in Carlisle]

The description 'traveller' today usually means someone of Gypsy or Romany Origins. I think it used to be used more widely to mean travelling salesman. So either might apply to your marriage certificate record.
Anne

[Gmelliottuk]

I didn't know that, thanks.

I've seen the name Rogers linked to 'gypsy' families in my searches, so I'm leaning towards that. That and the fact that some of my wife's family definitely look to have gypsy characteristics, which is partly why we started her tree.

[Elaine]

Wondered if you were familiar with the site Sheffield Indexers, Annie's baptism is listed

http://www.sheffieldindexers.com/ParishBaptismIndex.html

hoped it might help with further searches as I can see her marriage details are there too.

[Gmelliottuk]

I do use that site from time to time but could not see anything for Annie. There is a marriage listed for an Annie, but she looks the wrong age for the year given

[Elaine]

Sorry I meant Doris's marriage

[Gmelliottuk]

Ah, no problem.

I just wish I could find what happened to her and her brother in the time between her birth and her marriage

[cbcarolyn]

have you got the son later? still in Sheffield? Annie in Sheffield also, apart from the trip to Lincolnshire in 1911.

I did wonder if they were with a family member and picked up the wrong surname.

[Gmelliottuk]

Doris Rogers Huteson was 1903
Joseph Rogers Huteson 1905
Annie Huteson c1884

I have seen the proper baptism (and marriage) record for Doris but only an birth index listing for Joseph.

i've tried a lot of cominations on the census searches, leaving surname blank with both siblings names, leaving location blank, etc.

[Gmelliottuk]

I found an interesting record earlier for a Joseph Rogers (potential father), literally living 1 street away from the pub where Annie lived in 1901. This however, was from 1891 and they seemed to have moved elsewhere by 1901. His father on that record was from Lincolnshire, same as Annie.

It had no mention of them being travellers though