name in will?

[kylejustin]

Thank you ladies. I do wonder if anne prior might be on a missing section of the census? I do remember there being large sections of london that are missing in 1861?

[kylejustin]

UPDATE

so the will of anne prior (d.1863) arrived today, answered some questions, but raised another.

"i direct that i may be buried in the vault or grave in which the remains of my late dear sister sarah twallin are deposited in the courtyard of hornchurch..." she leaves details for the monument she wants to cover the graves of her parents, sisters and self.

sarah prior married james twallin in st george hanover square, london in 1804. she died in 1810 (some clippings) at belle sauvage in ludgate hill, london, and was buried at hornchurch, age 40, according to the register.

so that's one sister down....

"i also give unto the said henrietta shaw, the portrait of my sister mrs john russell and also of my sister sarah twallin and also of the little dog sesto..." there is actually family lore concerning an "aunt russell" who was supposedly quite wealthy and travelled with henrietta, also leaving her much wealth upon her death. but nothing more than this myth is known.
henrietta seems to have been a companion for anne and her sister mary in their later years, as she is listed as living at the same address in the probate documentation as anne. i do wonder if this "aunt russell" is a prior cousin, given aunt status and fondly remembered? or just ludicrously rich and open for exploitation?

yet i can find no evidence of a prior marrying a john russell. likely candidate would be betty prior b.1763 hornchurch, the last known prior sibling.
with all this wealth the sisters have, is it possible for their parents to die as pauper's? the only candidates for the parents were pauper's buried in hornchurch. and anne's will makes it clear that's where they were buried.

she also mentions a charlotte smith of tottenham, in her codicil she calls her "my cousin". i can only spot a needlewoman in the census. not sure if that is her. not sure whether she is from the prior or spurling sides of the family.

so recap:

john prior married sarah spurling at hornchurch in 1762. he died 1803 or 1810, she in 1794. all children at hornchurch:

1) betty- b.1763

2) mary- b.1765. d.1853 marylebone, bur.hornchurch. m.1794 peter mcclea (d.1798), st james piccadilly. admin.

3) sarah- b.1767. d.1810 ludgate hill, london. bur.hornchurch. m.1804 james twallin (d.1828), st george hanover square.

4) anne- b.1770. d.1863, camberwell. bur.hornchurch. unmarried.

betty is the only one not mentioned in the will of their aunt, dorothy cloake written 1803. the parents aren't either. i would think this meant they were all deceased.

thoughts?

[cbcarolyn]

Have re read your post to double check - you don't know who Henrietta Shaw is either then?

Shame Charlotte has smith as surname, have you got John Priors siblings to see if there are any sisters marrying Smith?

Paupers don't seem to fit do they, what sort of wealth did Anne have?

[Elaine]

There is a marriage on Ancestry for a John Russell and Betty Prior

15 Mar 1785 St Gregory By St Paul's, City of London

There are 3 witnesses but William Wilson could be a clerk as he signs a few of the marriages, don't recognise the other 2 names.

[Lindsay]

I'm not sure if it's relevant, but apparently there was a Priors Farm in Hornchurch.

Try googling the Havering Local Studies Centre and searching the catalogue for Priors Farm Hornchurch. Not a huge amount shows up, but maybe contact them to see if they can help with the Priors?

[cbcarolyn]

There is a Henrietta Shaw born in Romford 1807, that dies in Sussex 1887, can't see a link at all with Anne.

Parents George & Margaret

Of course it may not be the right one anyway.

shaw.JPG

[kylejustin]

Ooh that marriage looks good. I don't recognise the wittnesses either.

i know who henrietta is. That is her will.

i don't know anything about john prior. So unsure if charlotte smith is his niece. Though there is a mary spurling b.1731 at romford who could have married a smith. I don't have anything on her asides from her baptism.

[cbcarolyn]

There is a marriage on Ancestry for a John Russell and Betty Prior

15 Mar 1785 St Gregory By St Paul's, City of London

There are 3 witnesses but William Wilson could be a clerk as he signs a few of the marriages, don't recognise the other 2 names.

good find, they certainly went back and forth to London

Ooh that marriage looks good. I don't recognise the wittnesses either.

i know who henrietta is. That is her will.

i don't know anything about john prior. So unsure if charlotte smith is his niece. Though there is a mary spurling b.1731 at romford who could have married a smith. I don't have anything on her asides from her baptism.

ahh you didn't say who she was so didn't know, did she hand on painting ?

[kylejustin]

good find, they certainly went back and forth to London

the wider family went back and forth between london and essex during the 18th and 19th centuries. Makes them difficult to trace lol

you didn't say who she was so didn't know, did she hand on painting ?

she (henrietta) is an aunt, the prior's are her father's first cousins. She didn't mention any paintings by name in her will. But divided her estate among her nieces and nephews.

would love to know what happened to all the paintings that get mentioned here and there. Probably in private collections as unknown sitters.

[PhotoFamily]

would love to know what happened to all the paintings that get mentioned here and there. Probably in private collections as unknown sitters.

I did have some luck with googling paintings mentioned in a side-branch will, but I think I did have the artists' names. Showed up on auction reports.

[cbcarolyn]

I don't think it is your Betty and John - but just in case
russell.JPG

Upminster a stones throw from Hornchurch

[Elaine]

I was looking at that last night as there are 2 articles with different dates, was hoping to look at wills but ancestry was down, checked tonight and there is a will for

John Russell Esq. Stubbers Essex 28 Jan 1826

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stubbers

This was really the only reference to a Betty I could find but what keeps bugging me is the family lore reference in post #42, if Henrietta was a companion to 'aunt Russell', the 'aunt Russell' we are looking for, would have been alive when Dorothy died.

[cbcarolyn]

I saw the 2 dates, and thought 1825 didn't sound right as it article was 1839, but no evidence. I started reading will and then went and eat!

If it was her did just wonder if she wasn't in will as not in the country?

there is a burial record for 1839, which is north ockendon, so guess this is another
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

[cbcarolyn]

This was really the only reference to a Betty I could find but what keeps bugging me is the family lore reference in post #42, if Henrietta was a companion to 'aunt Russell', the 'aunt Russell' we are looking for, would have been alive when Dorothy died.

re reading that, maybe that is another reason for her to not get a mention in the will, if you have a lot of wealth of your own maybe it would be acceptable not to receive from a will? especially of abroad.

[cbcarolyn]

can't see a burial for John as it said family, assumed it to be Russell.

	Betty Russell	abt 1764	Burial	2 Jan 1839	North Ockendon, St Mary Magdalene, Essex
	Joseph Russell	abt 1760	Burial	23 Feb 1828	North Ockendon, St Mary Magdalene, Essex
	Lady Elizabeth Russell	abt 1753	Burial	3 Jul 1838	North Ockendon, St Mary Magdalene, Essex
	Champion Russell	abt 1821	Burial	21 May 1887	North Ockendon, St Mary Magdalene, Essex

[kylejustin]

I think it might be the right betty russell. She was b.1762, so the age isn't far off. I can't see a death registered in pau, france on filae for 1838/9. Or in the overseas deaths on FMP. But the burial at north ockendon states she died at pau, france. There is also a note she was the widow of john russell of stubbers, and that in the monuments of the church, she was erroneously called eliza.

john russell, esquire bur.7 jan 1826, age 68 of stubbers. At north ockendon.

But there is death duties on FMP for a betty russell in 1838, administrator: mary mcclea, 43 park st, park lane.....and also in 1839, mr (sic) mcclea, hammersmith. No indication where she died though...so is she the same betty who died in pau?

[cbcarolyn]

It must be the same Betty, surely, seems all coincidental.

did you try searching for death in 1835 and a couple even said 1825 as newspaper reports state that was her death date?

[cbcarolyn]

Johns Will leaves £5k to Betty

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_311442-00608?treeid=171416310&personid=162242076611&usePUB=true&_phsrc=SZd49970&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=257931

[kylejustin]

Yes i read that will. He made her an executor and left the £5,000. Stubbers went to his brother joseph.

her sister in law, lady elizabeth russell died in aix en provence earlier in 1838, and was buried in north ockendon. Wonder if they were travelling together? She was the dau of an irish earl. Her will is quite large. Suppose it is worth reading to see if henrietta shaw was mentioned at all. That could clinch it.

i did note one article said her husband died 1825 and the other 1835. And one article said she died in pau, the other pole. Both copied from the same paper in essex!

must be more to this story. I doubt john and sarah prior could be buried as paupers, when their daughters had estates at death. Or that one could have an earl's dau as a sister in law. The spurling's mother was a blacksmith's daughter. I think their father was a husbandman. Curioser and curioser.

suppose the only way to tell would be to get my hands on betty russell's death duties, that would give some sort of address right?

[Elaine]

I haven't a clue so had a look at this for info on death indexes

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/death-duties-1796-1903/

Also had a look in google books, reference to John Prior of Hornchurch 1810 dying at his daughter's appartment, Pall Mall

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TRd2pTgTf3gC&pg=PA90&dq=john+prior+hornchurch&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBvrSp2qPtAhV1pHEKHZD-DAAQ6AEwAHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=john%20prior%20hornchurch&f=false