name in will?

[cbcarolyn]

I did have a wander around 'stubbers' this book confirms that all 3 boys, John, William and Joseph had no issue
https://archive.org/details/notesque...2up?q=stubbers

Interestingly they think could be related to Woburn Duke of Bedford Russells.

[kylejustin]

Elaine, that john prior was bankrupt, according to the death duties. The burial at hornchurch calls him a pauper...would he be listed as a pauper but still be buried properly if his dau paid for it?

carolyn, i had wondered where their wealth comes from. They are descended from a london alderman, who bought stubbers in late 1680's. Whether he was related to dukes of bedford or not..

[cbcarolyn]

I wondered how Betty married into the family, especially as John was the eldest, you kind of feel in those days they would have been introduced, didn't meet across a crowded bar.

It seems odd that there is no mention of their wedding in the paper, as the burial was in many editions.

some help on the NA is succinct other so wordy you just get bogged down, I think it is saying you can only get rest of info at family search centre or at the NA itself?

[Elaine]

I still can't work the burial out and searching again, have just found this advert

[Elaine]

Morning Post 12 April 1819

Mesdames M Clea and Prior...business moves to 3 Green Street Grosvenor Square

1820 business changes hands

[cbcarolyn]

that was a good find

[kylejustin]

Oh, they owned a dress shop? That would prove the 1810 death of john prior, as the article clipping said he died in pall mall. Maybe he sunk all he had into their shop?

so betty married into the russell gentry, sarah runs an inn in ludgate hill, and anne and mary own a dress shop.

[cbcarolyn]

Oh, they owned a dress shop? That would prove the 1810 death of john prior, as the article clipping said he died in pall mall. Maybe he sunk all he had into their shop?

so betty married into the russell gentry, sarah runs an inn in ludgate hill, and anne and mary own a dress shop.

What a lovely lot of ladies, how fab is that. It seems as though they are making the corsets, as well. Ads were a great find. The shop seems to be in a swanky part of town too.

[Elaine]

Found a death notice in a Suffolk newspaper for Betty and has also looked here

https://archives.agglo-pau.fr/4DCGI/...646/ILUMP25829

have I got the right area?

[Elaine]

Stumbled on this which confirms the date she died which I saw in another paper after I posted the above one,

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...201838&f=false

[cbcarolyn]

You are on a roll Elaine.

Would love to know why she was there, did she go with her husband or after his death.

[kylejustin]

John russell d.1826, i suspect betty went with her sister in law, lady elizabeth, who died in mar 1838 i think was at aix en provence. Which is a 5hr drive from pau. So maybe betty had property in pau? That admin is interesting. So there is a french etate...might email archives and see if they have a notary archive. And also see if they can locate anything on betty russell.

[kylejustin]

i feel like an idiot. i regularly use filae to look into my french roots. i was right when i said there was no death for betty RUSSELL in france. what i forgot (english research blinkers on) is that women keep their maiden names in france.

betty PRIOR, widow russell died 25 sep 1838 in pau, france. age 75 yrs, widow of john russell. of stubbers, parish of north ockendon, county essex, england.

i have emailed the department archives in pau concerning finding her paperwork on her estate. should have been handled by notaries, and they generally deposit their records in department archives. otherwise, would have to track down existing notary offices in pau, and see if any were in operation in 1838 and ask if they have anything.

i also found her sister in law. elizabeth bermingham, widow russell died 14 feb 1838, aix en provence. dau of thomas bermingham, count of louth and baron of atheury and of lady daly. widow of mr serrell, mr duffield and joseph russell.

[cbcarolyn]

Turning out to be an interesting bunch. Did you find all the census in the end?

All the ladies outliving the men, and some outliving many men

[cbcarolyn]

I think I saw this record ages ago, but couldn't read name other than McClea, now of course it makes sens as it says McClea & Prior!

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=23395789

rates in Westminster, Hanover Square. Not new news really but always nice to have a few additional records. Many are indexed as McClea as they are both names, some are Mary McClea, address is Park Street, not re read the thread, but not sure they were always found here on other records.

earliest I think is 1816 until at least 1850, so they were not living at the dress shop.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...cclea&count=50

[Elaine]

Was looking at the marriage witnesses for John and Betty and went back to those parish records and came across a Spurling!
Have you got a Rachel Spurling marrying William Holmes? John Prior was a witness

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...080&cat=495537

[kylejustin]

Thanks carolyn, forgot to reply! Park st seems to be the address for mary at least for a while. It appears on a few documents.

elaine, that is correct, rachael spurling (1738-1799) is their aunt, sister of dorothy cloake nee spurling (1732-1804). She had no children, and is the "mrs holmes" in dorothy's will. There was also susannah (1734-1827) married to shaw and then rising, she is my ancestor. There were a couple infant sarah's and an infant susannah.

The last sister was mary b.1732, and i'm wondering if she is the sarah who married john prior....as there is no baptism for sarah, and nothing more on mary. Also mary is the third child, after the two infant sarah's. So wondering if they really wanted a sarah, and were superstitious...not wanting to jinx the new baby, baptising her as mary but calling her sarah?

generally finding there is one in every generation in a family (at least!) who vanishes into thin air...

i looked at death duties on the national archives. While covid restrictions are on there is no online ordering and copying service by the archives. You have to go in person. So will wait and hopefully get a few done together in a few mths.

[cbcarolyn]

Thanks carolyn, forgot to reply! Park st seems to be the address for mary at least for a while. It appears on a few documents.

I hadn't realised when I first posted that she was at the address so long, and that the dress shop was another premises, I had imagined that they would be living on the premises.

did you find the missing census?

[Elaine]

Hopefully it won't be too long kylejustin

[kylejustin]

so the french archives in pau sent the estate paperwork. the info states the heirs are madame mcclea nee prior and mademoiselle prior of london. thank you ladies very much for all the help. i think this is the origin of the family lore about "aunt russell". betty had wealth, travelled, and the estate went to mary and anne. mary died and her estate went to anne. then anne willed most of her wealth to her cousin henrietta shaw. interesting how complicated the grain of truth in these family myths are.