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    #41
    Thank you ladies. I do wonder if anne prior might be on a missing section of the census? I do remember there being large sections of london that are missing in 1861?

    Comment


      #42
      UPDATE

      so the will of anne prior (d.1863) arrived today, answered some questions, but raised another.

      "i direct that i may be buried in the vault or grave in which the remains of my late dear sister sarah twallin are deposited in the courtyard of hornchurch..." she leaves details for the monument she wants to cover the graves of her parents, sisters and self.

      sarah prior married james twallin in st george hanover square, london in 1804. she died in 1810 (some clippings) at belle sauvage in ludgate hill, london, and was buried at hornchurch, age 40, according to the register.

      so that's one sister down....

      "i also give unto the said henrietta shaw, the portrait of my sister mrs john russell and also of my sister sarah twallin and also of the little dog sesto..." there is actually family lore concerning an "aunt russell" who was supposedly quite wealthy and travelled with henrietta, also leaving her much wealth upon her death. but nothing more than this myth is known.
      henrietta seems to have been a companion for anne and her sister mary in their later years, as she is listed as living at the same address in the probate documentation as anne. i do wonder if this "aunt russell" is a prior cousin, given aunt status and fondly remembered? or just ludicrously rich and open for exploitation?

      yet i can find no evidence of a prior marrying a john russell. likely candidate would be betty prior b.1763 hornchurch, the last known prior sibling.
      with all this wealth the sisters have, is it possible for their parents to die as pauper's? the only candidates for the parents were pauper's buried in hornchurch. and anne's will makes it clear that's where they were buried.

      she also mentions a charlotte smith of tottenham, in her codicil she calls her "my cousin". i can only spot a needlewoman in the census. not sure if that is her. not sure whether she is from the prior or spurling sides of the family.

      so recap:

      john prior married sarah spurling at hornchurch in 1762. he died 1803 or 1810, she in 1794. all children at hornchurch:

      1) betty- b.1763

      2) mary- b.1765. d.1853 marylebone, bur.hornchurch. m.1794 peter mcclea (d.1798), st james piccadilly. admin.

      3) sarah- b.1767. d.1810 ludgate hill, london. bur.hornchurch. m.1804 james twallin (d.1828), st george hanover square.

      4) anne- b.1770. d.1863, camberwell. bur.hornchurch. unmarried.

      betty is the only one not mentioned in the will of their aunt, dorothy cloake written 1803. the parents aren't either. i would think this meant they were all deceased.

      thoughts?

      Comment


        #43
        Have re read your post to double check - you don't know who Henrietta Shaw is either then?

        Shame Charlotte has smith as surname, have you got John Priors siblings to see if there are any sisters marrying Smith?

        Paupers don't seem to fit do they, what sort of wealth did Anne have?

        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


          #44
          There is a marriage on Ancestry for a John Russell and Betty Prior

          15 Mar 1785 St Gregory By St Paul's, City of London

          There are 3 witnesses but William Wilson could be a clerk as he signs a few of the marriages, don't recognise the other 2 names.


          Elaine

          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

          Comment


            #45
            I'm not sure if it's relevant, but apparently there was a Priors Farm in Hornchurch.

            Try googling the Havering Local Studies Centre and searching the catalogue for Priors Farm Hornchurch. Not a huge amount shows up, but maybe contact them to see if they can help with the Priors?

            Comment


              #46
              There is a Henrietta Shaw born in Romford 1807, that dies in Sussex 1887, can't see a link at all with Anne.

              Parents George & Margaret

              Of course it may not be the right one anyway.

              shaw.JPG

              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


                #47
                Ooh that marriage looks good. I don't recognise the wittnesses either.

                i know who henrietta is. That is her will.

                i don't know anything about john prior. So unsure if charlotte smith is his niece. Though there is a mary spurling b.1731 at romford who could have married a smith. I don't have anything on her asides from her baptism.

                Comment


                  #48
                  Originally posted by Elaine View Post
                  There is a marriage on Ancestry for a John Russell and Betty Prior

                  15 Mar 1785 St Gregory By St Paul's, City of London

                  There are 3 witnesses but William Wilson could be a clerk as he signs a few of the marriages, don't recognise the other 2 names.

                  good find, they certainly went back and forth to London

                  Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                  Ooh that marriage looks good. I don't recognise the wittnesses either.

                  i know who henrietta is. That is her will.

                  i don't know anything about john prior. So unsure if charlotte smith is his niece. Though there is a mary spurling b.1731 at romford who could have married a smith. I don't have anything on her asides from her baptism.
                  ahh you didn't say who she was so didn't know, did she hand on painting ?

                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                    #49
                    Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                    good find, they certainly went back and forth to London
                    the wider family went back and forth between london and essex during the 18th and 19th centuries. Makes them difficult to trace lol

                    Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                    you didn't say who she was so didn't know, did she hand on painting ?
                    she (henrietta) is an aunt, the prior's are her father's first cousins. She didn't mention any paintings by name in her will. But divided her estate among her nieces and nephews.

                    would love to know what happened to all the paintings that get mentioned here and there. Probably in private collections as unknown sitters.



                    Comment


                      #50
                      Originally posted by kylejustin View Post

                      would love to know what happened to all the paintings that get mentioned here and there. Probably in private collections as unknown sitters.
                      I did have some luck with googling paintings mentioned in a side-branch will, but I think I did have the artists' names. Showed up on auction reports.
                      ------------------------------------------------------
                      My Families
                      London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

                      Comment


                        #51
                        I don't think it is your Betty and John - but just in case
                        russell.JPG

                        Upminster a stones throw from Hornchurch
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                          #52
                          I was looking at that last night as there are 2 articles with different dates, was hoping to look at wills but ancestry was down, checked tonight and there is a will for

                          John Russell Esq. Stubbers Essex 28 Jan 1826

                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stubbers

                          This was really the only reference to a Betty I could find but what keeps bugging me is the family lore reference in post #42, if Henrietta was a companion to 'aunt Russell', the 'aunt Russell' we are looking for, would have been alive when Dorothy died.
                          Elaine

                          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                          Comment


                            #53
                            I saw the 2 dates, and thought 1825 didn't sound right as it article was 1839, but no evidence. I started reading will and then went and eat!

                            If it was her did just wonder if she wasn't in will as not in the country?

                            there is a burial record for 1839, which is north ockendon, so guess this is another
                            https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
                            Last edited by cbcarolyn; 26-11-20, 22:43.
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                              #54
                              Originally posted by Elaine View Post

                              This was really the only reference to a Betty I could find but what keeps bugging me is the family lore reference in post #42, if Henrietta was a companion to 'aunt Russell', the 'aunt Russell' we are looking for, would have been alive when Dorothy died.
                              re reading that, maybe that is another reason for her to not get a mention in the will, if you have a lot of wealth of your own maybe it would be acceptable not to receive from a will? especially of abroad.

                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #55
                                can't see a burial for John as it said family, assumed it to be Russell.
                                Betty Russell abt 1764 Burial 2 Jan 1839 North Ockendon, St Mary Magdalene, Essex
                                Joseph Russell abt 1760 Burial 23 Feb 1828 North Ockendon, St Mary Magdalene, Essex
                                Lady Elizabeth Russell abt 1753 Burial 3 Jul 1838 North Ockendon, St Mary Magdalene, Essex
                                Champion Russell abt 1821 Burial 21 May 1887 North Ockendon, St Mary Magdalene, Essex
                                Carolyn
                                Family Tree site

                                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                  #56
                                  I think it might be the right betty russell. She was b.1762, so the age isn't far off. I can't see a death registered in pau, france on filae for 1838/9. Or in the overseas deaths on FMP. But the burial at north ockendon states she died at pau, france. There is also a note she was the widow of john russell of stubbers, and that in the monuments of the church, she was erroneously called eliza.

                                  john russell, esquire bur.7 jan 1826, age 68 of stubbers. At north ockendon.

                                  But there is death duties on FMP for a betty russell in 1838, administrator: mary mcclea, 43 park st, park lane.....and also in 1839, mr (sic) mcclea, hammersmith. No indication where she died though...so is she the same betty who died in pau?

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    It must be the same Betty, surely, seems all coincidental.

                                    did you try searching for death in 1835 and a couple even said 1825 as newspaper reports state that was her death date?

                                    Last edited by cbcarolyn; 27-11-20, 14:53.
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #58
                                      Johns Will leaves £5k to Betty

                                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...rue&pId=257931
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                        #59
                                        Yes i read that will. He made her an executor and left the £5,000. Stubbers went to his brother joseph.

                                        her sister in law, lady elizabeth russell died in aix en provence earlier in 1838, and was buried in north ockendon. Wonder if they were travelling together? She was the dau of an irish earl. Her will is quite large. Suppose it is worth reading to see if henrietta shaw was mentioned at all. That could clinch it.
                                        ​​
                                        i did note one article said her husband died 1825 and the other 1835. And one article said she died in pau, the other pole. Both copied from the same paper in essex!

                                        must be more to this story. I doubt john and sarah prior could be buried as paupers, when their daughters had estates at death. Or that one could have an earl's dau as a sister in law. The spurling's mother was a blacksmith's daughter. I think their father was a husbandman. Curioser and curioser.

                                        suppose the only way to tell would be to get my hands on betty russell's death duties, that would give some sort of address right?

                                        Comment


                                          #60
                                          I haven't a clue so had a look at this for info on death indexes

                                          https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...ies-1796-1903/

                                          Also had a look in google books, reference to John Prior of Hornchurch 1810 dying at his daughter's appartment, Pall Mall

                                          https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...church&f=false

                                          Elaine

                                          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                          Comment

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