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    Did they marry?

    Hi all, it was always my Nan's belief that one of her Grandfather's left his wife and 7 children and ran off with another woman!

    Anyway, I've traced him now (I think) on the 1939 here with his 2nd 'wife' Sarah
    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...17&usePUB=true

    I believe this is him as I managed to find where he is buried and his 'wife' Sarah is also in the same plot according to the records.

    However, I can't find a marriage for them. I believe Sarah's MN is Butler and I have found a marriage to a Charles Lay (there is a daughter Margaret on the 1939 who I believe is from this marriage) and there is also an Edward Lee (MMN Lay though not Butler). Can anyone see a marriage for them please?

    Thanks as always for your help.

    Tessie


    #2
    Tessie, have had a look at the index image on FMP and it’s not a very clear image. However, it’s likely the Charles and Sarah marriage you have spotted could well be the correct couple. The transcription says Charles B. Lay but the the B is not at all clear and neither are the two E for the entries below him - Ethel and Ethelbert. It would appear that the typewriter used had a rubbish E key.
    At a good zoom on my iPad, the E at Ethel and Ethelbert look to be the same letter as that used for Charles’ middle initial. It has a slight kink to the right in the upright. Compare that with the B in Ethel’s marriage place of Bolton which looks like the upright is totally straight.
    Maybe other folks with better eyesight might see something different?

    UPDATE - have just had a look on ancestry. No page image which surprises me but their transcription is Charles E Lay.

    Comment


      #3
      Charles Edward Lay from index to ancestry database UK, British Army World War I Pension Records 1914-1920
      Name Charles Edward Lay
      Gender Male
      Birth Date abt 1888
      Marriage Date 6 Apr 1912
      Marriage Place St Mary's Church Reading
      Age 27
      Document Year 1915
      Residence Place Pell St, Reading
      Regimental Number 17821
      Regiment Princess Charlotte of Wales's (Royal Berkshire) Regiment
      Form Title Short Service Attestation
      Number of Images 9
      Family Members
      Charles Edward Lay Self (Head)
      Sarah Butler Spouse

      Comment


        #4
        Hmmm I was thinking this but then he had children with his 1st wife in 1912 and 1917 unless I have gone wrong or he was a very naughty man :(

        Back to the start with him I think :(

        Comment


          #5
          Hi, so following on from this it seems there is another Charles Lee who is 'single' on the 1939 register (just done another search) and living in the same area with similar DOB so I think I have the wrong man!? What is the best way to identify which Charles Lee is mine? I can also only find one death in 1953 which relates to the one I have identified buried with Sarah so where is my Charles?
          Can anyone give me some pointers I'm missing or should I send off for one of the death certs?
          Thanks

          Comment


            #6
            What age is the Sarah in the grave? Does it tie in with age on the 1939 you thought was your man and his 2nd wife?

            Comment


              #7
              Yes they tie in, bar the year which is a year out (but I find this all the time on the 1939)!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by tessie31082 View Post
                Hi all, it was always my Nan's belief that one of her Grandfather's left his wife and 7 children and ran off with another woman!

                Anyway, I've traced him now (I think) on the 1939 here with his 2nd 'wife' Sarah
                https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...17&usePUB=true

                I believe this is him as I managed to find where he is buried and his 'wife' Sarah is also in the same plot according to the records.

                However, I can't find a marriage for them. I believe Sarah's MN is Butler and I have found a marriage to a Charles Lay (there is a daughter Margaret on the 1939 who I believe is from this marriage) and there is also an Edward Lee (MMN Lay though not Butler). Can anyone see a marriage for them please?

                Thanks as always for your help.

                Tessie
                Can't see a marriage for them. Looked for Sarah Lay to Charles E Lee.

                Will you please give details of your Charles E Lee

                I have been looking at a Charles E Lee m to Annie King. On his Army Record last child b 1917. Annie with son George in 1939 recorded as married. There is a death for an Annie Lee died 1961 buried at Rose Hill Cemetery, Oxford aged 83. There is also a death for Charles Edward Lay Reading Reg 1927 aged 39

                So the 1939 possibly yours with Charles E Lee and Sarah Lay nee Butler

                Vera

                Comment


                  #9
                  Vera, the Charles and Annie you have is my Charles! As there is a birth of a child in 1917 I now think the Charles I found on the 1939 with Sarah is not mine but the Charles who I found as single probably is

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by tessie31082 View Post
                    Vera, the Charles and Annie you have is my Charles! As there is a birth of a child in 1917 I now think the Charles I found on the 1939 with Sarah is not mine but the Charles who I found as single probably is
                    Hello Tessie. Please give more info on the single Charles E Lee to help eliminate/ confirm he is your man. EDIT OK I have found him. Will take a look at him

                    vera

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Just an update. Still think it is more likely that the Charles E Lee with Sarah in Reading is your man ie the estranged husband of Annie King.

                      There is a tenuous link to the Army records . Charles E states on the 09 Dec 1915 at attestation that he is aged 38 and 1 month. This gives a dob of 09 November 1877 which is a week out from that recorded on 1939 of 15 Nov 1877. However GRO reg is Dec q 1878 and death reg gives a dob of 1879.

                      Clutching at straws maybe. On the 1939 Sarah is recorded as carrying out Domestic Work which is altered to Unpaid Domestic Duties a phrase used for a married woman

                      The single Charles I found was recorded on the 1939 as living Bradfield, born 12 Dec 1877 but a Charles Lee was Registered on GRO Bradfield in the 1st Q of 1877. ?The son of Thos and Elizabeth.

                      ​​​​​​Needs more checking to prove what was said by Grandmother

                      Vera

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                        Just an update. Still think it is more likely that the Charles E Lee with Sarah in Reading is your man ie the estranged husband of Annie King.

                        There is a tenuous link to the Army records . Charles E states on the 09 Dec 1915 at attestation that he is aged 38 and 1 month. This gives a dob of 09 November 1877 which is a week out from that recorded on 1939 of 15 Nov 1877. However GRO reg is Dec q 1878 and death reg gives a dob of 1879.

                        Clutching at straws maybe. On the 1939 Sarah is recorded as carrying out Domestic Work which is altered to Unpaid Domestic Duties a phrase used for a married woman

                        The single Charles I found was recorded on the 1939 as living Bradfield, born 12 Dec 1877 but a Charles Lee was Registered on GRO Bradfield in the 1st Q of 1877. ?The son of Thos and Elizabeth.

                        ​​​​​​Needs more checking to prove what was said by Grandmother

                        Vera
                        Thanks Vera, should I order Charles E married to Sarah death cert? If the name has been mis-transcribed as Lay and they did marry in 1915 how did he have a child with his 1st wife in 1917? What am I mising there? I'm so confused with this man lol!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Just to add. In the 1939 there is a single Charles Lee b 12 Dec 1877 in Bradfield, Berks, Ag Lab

                          Pretty sure he is the one I can see with parents Thomas and Elizabeth in 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911

                          There is one more Charles Lee b 1878 B Whitley but he is a widower in 1939.

                          The dc of Charles E Lee buried with Sarah is not likely to confirm he is your Cha rles. The dob is recorded as 1879. Unless of course truth comes out and it records widower of Annie.

                          I will re-read thread re that 1915 marriage as the first husband of Sarah Lay (nee Butler) is Charles Edward Lay who died 1927 and whose do b is 1888

                          Charles Edward Lay b 1888 aged 39
                          7 Kew Terrace
                          Died 1927. Buried 14/10/1927 St Michael, Tilehurst


                          Vera



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