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    Can you help untangle this?

    Alice Colthup b4 Oct 1863 had an illegitimate child William Llewellyn bap 14 Dec 1883 registered Q1 1884 West Ashford ref 2a 796. In 1891 William is living with his grandfather Henry b1840. In 1901 he is probably the man single age 17 in the household of Harry Tibbles ref Piece:778 Folio:125 Page: 11. In 1911 he was serving as a constable in Devonport prior to his marriage. RG14 - PN13018 RD278 SD1 ED4 SN196. He married Eleanor May Johnson 26 Sep 1911 in Appledore. In 1923 London Electoral Roll: William Llewellyn Colthup and Eleanor Colthup 89A Ealing Park Gardens. In 1939 he can also be found, now a builder. So his life is well documented and is included here for elimination purposes.

    On 23 Dec 1893 Alice married George Day and they had 3 daughters. The family can be found in 1901 and 1911. However the puzzle is revealed in the 1939 register when George has died and Alice is living with William Day b Dec 13 1890. Who is this William and how is he related or connected to Alice?

    #2
    I assume as it is a puzzle - it is not a brother of George? where is she living in 1939?

    Left Hertfordshire and back in Kent?
    Last edited by cbcarolyn; 29-09-20, 18:40.
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


      #3
      I am not certain about George's family. This may be him, if so no brother William (plus he would be 23 years older):
      Frederick is given as George's father's name at his marriage. The only family that I can find that fits in 1871 is:
      Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where born
      DAY, Frederick Head M 34 1837 Suffolk
      DAY, Ann M Wife F 38 1833 Suffolk
      DAY, Edwin F Son M 12 1859 Suffolk
      DAY, Arthur T Son M 9 1862 Suffolk
      DAY, Walter Son M 7 1864 Suffolk
      DAY, George R Son M 5 1866 Suffolk
      DAY, Alice A Daughter F 4 1867 Suffolk
      DAY, Julia Daughter F 2 1869 Suffolk
      Piece:1756
      Folio:80
      Page: 35
      Registration District: Ipswich
      Civil Parish: St Helen
      Municipal Borough: Ipswich
      Address: Lancaster Road, St Helen, Ipswich
      County: Suffolk

      In 1939 Alice is in Maidstone.

      Comment


        #4
        Plenty trees on ancestry with Alice Maria Colthup in them and a few of them have George Day as her spouse. However there are variations on his year of birth. Generally it appears to be agreement that he came from Kent. The places on censuses should be Reg District of Hollinbourn but for the mystery William, if he is a relative of George, it be either Hollingbourn or Maidstone as ukbmd shows some movement in 1891 of bits of parishes between the two. So I have kept an eye for them both in either one on GRO online index.

        These are the only likely matches for George. Maybe the 1866 one as nobody seems to know in the trees who his parents were?
        DAY, GEORGE -
        GRO Reference: 1866 M Quarter in MAIDSTONE Volume 02A Page 555
        DAY, GEORGE WATERS
        GRO Reference: 1867 S Quarter in MAIDSTONE Volume 02A Page 541
        DAY, GEORGE WATERMAN
        GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 585
        DAY, GEORGE BIRD
        GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 629
        For William, I checked the whole country for the last quarter of 1890 should he have been registered promptly and first quarter of 1891 in case it was done after the festive season. I have assumed that William had no middle name as you haven’t mentioned re: 1939
        The only one that is in the county of Kent is the 1891 one with mms Smith.

        8B5860A6-1E14-4DF5-B367-F32EBF8A31ED.jpeg

        Comment


          #5
          webwiz Do you have George and Alice Maria’s marriage certificate?

          Comment


            #6
            I have one in Harpenden.

            https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...65&usePUB=true
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


              #7
              then I found a couple of census where a George Day was born in Pirton, Herts

              But thinking maybe not right

              https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...20?pId=6548201
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


                #8
                There are some trees say Freston, Hertfordshire but Freston is Suffolk which is a match for the census you have in post #3. Will look again at GRO online. If that is the correct George, he has three older brothers who could well have gone on to have a son called William.

                Comment


                  #9
                  it doesn't look like Pirton in 1911, I can't think what it is meant to be. Maybe Preston in Herts, just down the road and I have never heard of it

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston,_Hertfordshire
                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Preston in Herts is near Hitchin. I think that's the right one. But the mms is Fitz John which just confuses me even more.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      this one:
                      DAY, GEORGE FITZ JOHN
                      GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in HITCHIN Volume 03A Page 293
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yes that's the one, but looking for Fitz John got me nowhere

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Frederick Day
                          Male
                          15 Feb 1862
                          Kings Walden, Hertford, England
                          Mary Fitzjohn
                          991340

                          Comment


                            #14
                            From England, Select Marriages 1538-1973 on ancestry. Both parties father’s were called George. Mary was aged 26 and Frederick was 33.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              They don't seem to have any boys, Elizabeth and Eliza
                              DAY, ELIZABETH FITZ JOHN
                              GRO Reference: 1862 J Quarter in HITCHIN Volume 03A Page 246

                              DAY, ELIZA FITZ JOHN
                              GRO Reference: 1864 D Quarter in HITCHIN Volume 03A Page 261

                              in Kings Walden, Hitchin in 1871
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #16
                                also this birth but not on the 1871
                                ​​​​​​DAY, FANNY FITZ JOHN
                                GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in HITCHIN Volume 03A Page 321
                                Carolyn
                                Family Tree site

                                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Thankyou ladies. that sorts out George's family I think. But no further in finding William.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    wanted to find a brother that had a family, but he only has sisters!

                                    Also they are all in Herts.

                                    How do you know the 1939 register is her? do you have the dob? Not that I can find any other likely one. When did George die?
                                    Last edited by cbcarolyn; 29-09-20, 21:18.
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Not sure which 1939 you are referring to.

                                      I can see a William Day, Farmer b 13/12/1890 with widowed Alice M Day b 14/10/1863. They are in Maidstone. She is possibly Alice Mary Smith (who married Edward Day b 1861, d 1934) mother of William.

                                      Vera

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        If Vera is right that solves the puzzle - the Alice I found in 1939 is not nee Colthup at all but nee Smith. I must go to bed now but will follow up in the morning when my brain might just be a bit clearer.

                                        Thanks to all who contributed.

                                        Comment

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