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    Can anyone find her birth?

    Can anyone find the birth reg of Dorothy Irene Hiles, b 1918. She is entered as P Hiles on the 19139 register and is with her (presumably) parents in Oxford. They are H C (Herbert Clarence ) Hiles and H C (should be H H, Hilda Hetty nee Hiles, she and Herbert were cousins) Hiles. I have looked all yesterday but cannot find her.

    She is not the Dorothy E Hiles born in 1918 to Ernest A Hiles and Ada nee Scammell. There is no connection between these 2 families, despite the fact that Herbert had a brother Ernest A and the other person with them on the 1939 subsequently marrying a Scammell. Those 2 red herrings kept me going for some time!

    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...44&pId=1661965

    Thanks.
    Linda


    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

    #2
    do you know what Hilda Hettys MN is Linda?
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
      do you know what Hilda Hettys MN is Linda?
      oops sorry me not seeing what is there!.. I see how it's Hiles.
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


        #4
        The only one I can see remotely is:

        Births Sep 1916
        Iles Irene D
        MMN Iles Leeds 9b 621


        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


          #5
          Will have a look at that one Julie, as Hiles and Iles were interchangeable at that time. Problem might be that they were all born and bred in Oxford and I wonder why they would shoot up to Leeds to have a child!
          Linda


          My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ozgirl View Post
            Will have a look at that one Julie, as Hiles and Iles were interchangeable at that time. Problem might be that they were all born and bred in Oxford and I wonder why they would shoot up to Leeds to have a child!
            no clue.. but that is the only one I could see.. not unless this is the right one but with an unmarried mother? that was sent away to have the baby?


            https://www.motherandbabyhomes.com/
            Last edited by Darksecretz; 04-09-20, 12:16.
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


              #7
              Looking on the GRO it looks as though the one in Leeds was born to an unmarried mother as against someone with the same married name as maiden name. My feeling is that she may have been adopted as I can't find any incidences of children to this couple, but it would have been one of the informal adoptions from those days.

              Query - were there more children born out of wedlock at that time due to the amount of young men killed in WWI ?
              Linda


              My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

              Comment


                #8
                That’s the only one I can find as well but it’s 2 years before the expected date and outwith the expected area. According to 1911 and 1901 censuses, for Hilda Hetty’s and 1901 for Herbert Clarence’s all four parents are Oxfordshire born people. Can’t see a Yorkshire connection.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I looked on ancestry version of indexes for a Dorothy I. with no surname born 1918 Oxfordshire and found this one which is the only one where the mms is the same as the child’s registered surname. Worth following up maybe, even if to just eliminate her.
                  Dorothy I F Rickard
                  Jan 1918
                  [Feb 1918]
                  [Mar 1918]
                  Jan-Feb-Mar
                  Bicester
                  Oxfordshire
                  Rickard
                  3a
                  1513

                  Comment


                    #10
                    An illegitimate birth it seems so could be a candidate for adoption.
                    RICKARD, DOROTHY IRENE FLORENCE -
                    GRO Reference: 1918 M Quarter in BICESTER Volume 03A Page 1513

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Looked good, but Dorothy I F Rickhard married William G Williams in Oxford in 1940.

                      Back to the search!
                      Linda


                      My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ozgirl View Post

                        Query - were there more children born out of wedlock at that time due to the amount of young men killed in WWI ?
                        maybe, but more likely I would think that children were born in wedlock but ended up as one parent families due to spouses being KIA?

                        Julie
                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                        .......I find dead people

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ozgirl View Post
                          Looked good, but Dorothy I F Rickhard married William G Williams in Oxford in 1940.

                          Back to the search!
                          Ach, drat it! Still, was worth a look.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Maybe on to something here. On Herbert’s marriage certificate 3 May 1915, it says his occupation is a soldier and his residence was Writtle, Essex so he was serving in WW1. Doesn’t mention regiment he was with.
                            If that 1916 birth of Irene D ILES is indeed her then could one if the following explain the Leeds connection?
                            1. Hilda Hetty was evacuated.
                            2. Herbert’s regiment was in Leeds for some reason and Hilda went up to be near him to have the baby or he was serving on the home front and she was in married quarters with him.

                            Here’s a link to a modern day description of the area of Leeds West. Do any of these places sound familiar from family lore or documents?

                            https://wikitravel.org/en/Leeds/West_Leeds

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Have just spotted the Leeds 1916 birth is for ILES, Irene Doris and not Dorothy. Darn it. Post #14 is redundant now, except for your Dorothy possibly being born somewhere out of Oxfordshire due to her father’s location.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                                Have just spotted the Leeds 1916 birth is for ILES, Irene Doris and not Dorothy. Darn it. Post #14 is redundant now, except for your Dorothy possibly being born somewhere out of Oxfordshire due to her father’s location.


                                Found Herberts war record, he was with 4th Btn Ox and B.L.I, but was invalided out in Jan 1917 due to sickness, so presumably was back home in Oxford by 1918. I wonder if the 2 redacted entries would give any more info. Might just have to wait until they become available.

                                Thanks for your input ladies
                                Linda


                                My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by ozgirl View Post



                                  Found Herberts war record, he was with 4th Btn Ox and B.L.I, but was invalided out in Jan 1917 due to sickness, so presumably was back home in Oxford by 1918. I wonder if the 2 redacted entries would give any more info. Might just have to wait until they become available.

                                  Thanks for your input ladies
                                  I had found that info for you but got distracted by evening meal time. His medal card shows he was discharged under King‘s Regulations due to being too ill for service. His service record papers show he discharge required another person to take his place and he was given a King’s Certificate and his Silver War Badge to wear as proof he was not dodging his responsibilities. He had signed up only a few months before his marriage and his two employers are listed. One was Frinton on Sea so that fits with the marriage certificate. F on S is 45 miles from Writtle which is very near Chelmsford. Could he have enlisted at Chelmsford Barracks? The discharge as mentioned in the service record does not mention Hilda and that he seeks employment as a waiter in Oxford. Did you get all that in the pages of the record you have seen?

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I did wonder if she maybe wasn't their child? Am I right in assuming that they are both from Oxford? was he just at Writtle for army
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post

                                      I had found that info for you but got distracted by evening meal time. His medal card shows he was discharged under King‘s Regulations due to being too ill for service. His service record papers show he discharge required another person to take his place and he was given a King’s Certificate and his Silver War Badge to wear as proof he was not dodging his responsibilities. He had signed up only a few months before his marriage and his two employers are listed. One was Frinton on Sea so that fits with the marriage certificate. F on S is 45 miles from Writtle which is very near Chelmsford. Could he have enlisted at Chelmsford Barracks? The discharge as mentioned in the service record does not mention Hilda and that he seeks employment as a waiter in Oxford. Did you get all that in the pages of the record you have seen?
                                      No, that is more information than I found, thank you, it is very interesting. In answer to cbcarolyn they were both from Oxford, their fathers were brothers, 2 of the 11 children of George and Sarah Hiles. At that time all of the Hiles in Oxford were descended from George and Sarah - one big and (hopefully) happy family. As Hector was in the Oxford and Bucks Light Infantry, I am assuming he joined up in Oxford. According to the page for the Brigade, the 2/4th was formed in Oxford in 1914 and moved to Chelmsford in Jan 1915. This would fit with his time line of marrying May 1915, living in Writtle.

                                      https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk...light-infantry

                                      In the 1911 Herbert was living in lodgings, and was a waiter then, but doesn't say where he worked.
                                      Linda


                                      My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        You will be biting your nails till the 1921 census is released then hopefully you will find out where exactly the girl was born and whether or not she’s listed as adopted.

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