Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

In search of James Emerson

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    In search of James Emerson

    I have a brick wall that has been niggling me for years but I can’t see where to go next. I’d like to call on your collective experience to see if it can be resolved.

    I’ll start with a nice photo



    The man in the middle is James Emerson snr (b1844 Kendal) and the young woman on the left is his daughter Lydia Emerson (b1864 London). James snr’s wife, Louisa Roberts, died in 1903 and he remarried in 1911 to Matilda Day. So, I believe this photograph was taken between 1903 and 1911 as neither wife is there. Lydia was married in 1886 to Frederick Charles Caesar who is the man standing on her left. They had 4 children, one of whom was my grandmother.

    I know from the GRO birth indexes that Lydia had a sister, Emily, born in 1865 and a brother James, born in 1868, so I have always assumed that this is who the other two people in the photo are.

    BUT, I have recently found that Emily was married in 1889 in New Malden, so the man on the right in the photo could perhaps more likely be her husband, George Henry Harris.
    https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcr...%2F0066618%2F2

    So the big question is ‘What happened to James jnr?’

    He is not with the family in the 1871 census when he would have been 3 years old. Did he die?

    The only other ‘fact’ that I have is that he was baptised 29 August 1868 and was given the names James Eccles Emerson. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ue&pId=1831573



    I have searched and searched but found no other records for him. Can anyone shed any light on what happened to him, please?
    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

    #2
    For what it's worth - I looked at the photo before I read your post and thought, son and daughter standing either side of their seated father. That would be photography "etiquette". I think it very unlikely that a son in law would be leaning so nonchalantly against his father in law's chair!

    Doesn't help you find him in the records of course. When is the last sighting on census? Sorry, just seen you say 1871. It wasn't necessary to register a death before 1875 (rather, it was, but it was possible to bury someone without registering the death).

    OC

    Comment


      #3
      I had the same thoughts about the positions they are standing in but my father was very sure that the woman on the left and the man next to her were his grandparents Lydia Emerson and Frederick Caesar. I have other confirmed photos of Lydia but none of Frederick to compare. The man on the right also looks very casual which is why I originally assumed he was the son James Eccles Emerson. It was only recently when I found Emily's marriage that I started to doubt that. And the fact that I can't find any trace of James Eccles after his baptism.

      I did try looking for a burial in the same record set that I found the baptism, Westminster, but didn't find anything.
      Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

      Comment


        #4
        What do you think about the date of the photo judging by their clothing? I think it looks earlier than my estimate between 1903 and 1911 which was based on there being no wife in the picture.
        Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

        Comment


          #5
          Judging only by the clothing, those HUGE leg o mutton sleeves were all the rage in the 1890s but would have looked very old fashioned by the turn of the century. Of course, many women could not afford to discard unfashionable clothes, but I think most women would have made some attempt to alter them. Having said that, my grandmother liked the flapper style dresses she wore in the 1920s and wore that style till she died in the 1980s. Not for z lack of money either.

          In short, I'd put the phot before 1900 with the reservations above.

          OC

          Comment


            #6
            Agree with oc, dating wise is pre 1900 based off the huge sleeves. Plus it makes your man 50ish, which he looks.

            Comment


              #7
              If you wanted a professional opinion on the photo (sorry, not helping with finding james, i know) jayne shrimpton is good. She is a fashion historian and professional photo and painting dater. She used to work with findmypast, and has her own website. I've used her before, and been pleased with her work. She may be able to tell you quite a lot about this photo.

              Comment


                #8
                Could this be young James?
                James Emmerson
                born abt 1868
                Reg year: 1868
                Reg Qtr; Oct-Nov-Dec
                Age: 0
                District: St James Westminster
                ------------------------------------------------------
                My Families
                London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

                Comment


                  #9
                  Oh yes! Well found! I tried other name variations like Emberson and Emerton but never thought to try with a double M. Phew! I will follow that up later and see if I can find him laid to rest. Thank you so much.

                  Regarding the photo, the daughter Lydia was a seamstress so would certainly have been able to keep her clothes fashionable. I am curious about the very relaxed poses though. Perhaps I should follow up Kylejustin's suggestion and get an expert opinion.
                  Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                    Could this be young James?
                    James Emmerson
                    born abt 1868
                    Reg year: 1868
                    Reg Qtr; Oct-Nov-Dec
                    Age: 0
                    District: St James Westminster
                    aww looks like the one it is the record is on GRO

                    ​​​​​​ EMMERSON, JAMES 0
                    GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in WESTMINSTER, ST JAMES Volume 01A Page 324
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Next thought... If the photo was pre 1900, where was James snr's wife? Maybe already a sick woman - she died of stomach cancer.
                      Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        It isn't a professional photo so maybe they were visiting someone when the photo was taken, wife not there or indoors chatting!

                        OC

                        Comment


                          #13
                          It probably makes no difference but I have been delving and found my original annotated copy of the photo from when my Dad was alive and I have remembered his IDs wrongly. Lydia on the left was married to Frederick Caesar far right. Dad didn't know who the other two in the middle were but we guessed Emily and James. So now I'm revising that to probably Emily and her husband George Harris.

                          I've been trying to find a burial record for James but no joy so far. The baptism is available on line but I can't find the original burial records.
                          Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I have got the pdf of little James' death cert now and it shows that he died aged 7 months of phthisis. It was on 8th December so the burial would still have been in 1868, wouldn't it? Maybe I should search again in 1869 as well.

                            James Emerson death cert 1868.pdf



                            What do you think the informant's name was? I have an idea but would like to hear your thoughts.

                            Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Error
                              Last edited by keldon; 06-09-20, 13:45. Reason: Error
                              Phil
                              historyhouse.co.uk
                              Essex - family and local history.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                The informant was illiterate and made her mark. It’s usually given as an X but for some reason it is an O on this certificate.
                                I read it as;
                                O The mark of Elizabeth Watkin, Present at Death, 6 Little George Street, Broadway, Westminster

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Hhmm, I don’t see a W, I saw something beginning with B - Balkin? But there is another small flourish / squiggle between Elizabeth and the second name.
                                  Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Looks like the same as B on the bootmaker.

                                    I did look for burial before - I seem to remember I couldn't find any for the same as the others, is the book missing, I didn't investigate further.
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I did read it as "elizabeth balkin."

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X