Carmine Porrelli and Francesco Porrelli in Melbourne (1870s)

[Sembelj03]

Hello,

I am Sem Beljaars, 16 year old from the Netherlands and I am researching my family history. One of my ancestors, Carmine Antonio Porrelli, born on 26 July 1846 in Italy (Naples) arrived in Melbourne on 11 October 1874 from Glasgow. According to newspapers, he was an ice-cream manufacturer. He had a relative/brother named Francesco Antonio Porrelli, who also lived in the same period in Melbourne. I do not know when Francesco arrived in Melbourne or when he was born. Their names are often misspelled in newspapers and on passenger lists, which doesn't make my research any easier. The two left Melbourne on 13 September 1878 for Batavia, Dutch East Indies.

My problem is that I don't know where to begin searching. I have simply no experience with genealogical research in Australia, so I hope you can help me find more information about my Italian ancestors.

Kind regards,
Sem Beljaars

[Cath RJ]

arrived in Melbourne on 11 October 1874 from Glasgow.

I've had a quick look at Scottish census 1861/71 and can find no trace of Porrelli.
Do you know if they were living in Scotland at that time?

[GallowayLass]

1871 census in Glasgow. Lodger in a huge household. Year of birth and occupation match the passenger list.

Carmine

Porrello

Lodger

Married

Male

22

1849

Labourer

-

Italy

ITALY

-

55

-

High Street

Outer High or St Pauls

Glasgow

Lanarkshire

Scotland

Glasgow Central

This person is also in the household. The next entry below Carmine.

Antonia

Porrello

Lodger

Unmarried

Male

18

1853

Labourer

Italy

[Cath RJ]

Just found this - may be of use,

1871 Glasgow Census:-
Carmine Pohrello, age 22, 55 High Street, Glasgow. Labourer.
There is another Pohrello at the same address, also born Italy, aged 18 and also a labourer but I can't read their first name.

[Cath RJ]

Snap, Christine.
I also thought Antonia but surely that's a female name?

[GallowayLass]

Don’t see either of them in 1861 or 1881

[GallowayLass]

Dunno Cath, maybe the original will show an o instead of an a ?

[Cath RJ]

I agree. If surname was wrong then that's the obvious answer.

[Macbev]

From TROVE (the free website of Australian newspapers)

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/142997238?searchTerm=porrelli

Francisco Antonio Porrelli Involved in a stabbing contretemps with an employee at his Ice cream Factory in Little Lonsdale street. There are advertisements for icecream from this address in 1875

1877 there is an ad in the 'Argus' for real Italian icecream provided for parties, by C. Porrelli and Co 230 Bourke-street east. This may tie in with the balloon manufacture (see below)

Also this in 1901 on Ancestry

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=60885&h=371851&tid=&pid=&queryId=cb15d4234687d88a727bcf25d49f4774&usePUB=true&_phsrc=CRL8460&_phstart=successSource

Missing Friends
Carmine Porrelli is inquired for at the instance of Anthony Porrelli, H.M.S. Egeria, of the Pacific Station, B.C. Description:- 48 years of age, 6 feet high, dark complexion, beard, whiskers and moustache. Came to Melbourne 22 years ago and when last heard of was residing at 42 Little Collins-street, Melbourne, being engaged in the manufacture of balloons - O.7330. 1st

Victoria Police Gazette August 7 1901

[Macbev]

The two left Melbourne on 13 September 1878 for Batavia, Dutch East Indies.

F. Porelli, aged 35 departed Victoria Sep 1878 for Batavia via Sydney on the 'William Mackinnon"

[Sembelj03]

Thank you all for your help!

arrived in Melbourne on 11 October 1874 from Glasgow.

I've had a quick look at Scottish census 1861/71 and can find no trace of Porrelli.
Do you know if they were living in Scotland at that time?

The only thing I know is that Carmine Porrelli arrived in Melbourne from Glasgow. He arrived without his relative Francesco Porrelli, but they departed for Batavia together. The Carmine Porrelli in the Scotland census could very well be my ancestor, and seeing that his second name is Antonio it is likely that the "Antonia" from the census was one of his family members.

Do you know if there is any way of knowing when Carmine Porrelli arrived in Scotland? Or maybe census records in Melbourne? As I said, I have no experience with research outside of the Netherlands, so any help is appreciated.

[Sembelj03]

From TROVE (the free website of Australian newspapers)

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/142997238?searchTerm=porrelli

1877 [/B]there is an ad in the 'Argus' for real Italian icecream provided for parties, by C. Porrelli and Co 230 Bourke-street east. This may tie in with the balloon manufacture (see below)

Also this in 1901 on Ancestry

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=60885&h=371851&tid=&pid=&queryId=cb15d4234687d88a727bcf25d49f4774&usePUB=true&_phsrc=CRL8460&_phstart=successSource

Missing Friends
Carmine Porrelli is inquired for at the instance of Anthony Porrelli, H.M.S. Egeria, of the Pacific Station, B.C. Description:- 48 years of age, 6 feet high, dark complexion, beard, whiskers and moustache. Came to Melbourne 22 years ago and when last heard of was residing at 42 Little Collins-street, Melbourne, being engaged in the manufacture of balloons - O.7330. 1st

Victoria Police Gazette August 7 1901

Although the dates in the police gazette don't match my information, this could still be my ancestor, seeing that I haven't seen any other Carmine Porrelli in Melbourne at the time. Carmine owned a carousel in Batavia and his brother was involved in the theater business, so manufacturing balloons doesn't sound too strange to me. Maybe this Anthony Porrelli is the same "Antonia" from the Scottish census.

[GallowayLass]

I thought it odd that the transcription of the 1871 census says Carmine was married but there is no one else with the same surname on the same page of the passenger list that he is on.

[GallowayLass]

Wherever Carmine married, it was not in Scotland. There is only one entry for a name that could be meant to be Porrelli but it takes place in Canongate which is a registration district of Edinburgh. The marriage was the year after Carmine arrived in Australia.

PERILLI

ANTONIO

KAY

BARBARA

1875

685/3 20

Canongate

If this is the same man who was in Glasgow on the 1871 census with Carmine, there’s nothing to say that when he left Scotland for Australia, he May have left through the port of Leith which is the port that serves Edinburgh. Do you have an Australian arrival date for your Antonio?

[GallowayLass]

I have looked in the travel and migration records on ancestry and FMP for the arrival in United Kingdom 1861 - 1871 of a Car* P*r*l*i but not found a match.

[Sembelj03]

Wherever Carmine married, it was not in Scotland. There is only one entry for a name that could be meant to be Porrelli but it takes place in Canongate which is a registration district of Edinburgh. The marriage was the year after Carmine arrived in Australia.

PERILLI

ANTONIO

KAY

BARBARA

1875

685/3 20

Canongate

If this is the same man who was in Glasgow on the 1871 census with Carmine, there’s nothing to say that when he left Scotland for Australia, he May have left through the port of Leith which is the port that serves Edinburgh. Do you have an Australian arrival date for your Antonio?

I don't know if or when Antonio moved to Australia. The only Porrelli's I know of are Carmine and Francesco.

Personally I don't think it's likely that Carmine married in Scotland, seeing that he migrated two times (to Australia and Indonesia), which doesn't seem like something you would do when you are married. It could be a transcription error.

[Sembelj03]

I have looked in the travel and migration records on ancestry and FMP for the arrival in United Kingdom 1861 - 1871 of a Car* P*r*l*i but not found a match.

His name could be spelled with a B instead of a P. When you say the name quickly it's possible to hear a "B" instead of a "P".

[kylejustin]

There's a few "poroli" bmd's in vic from the bmd registry, as early as 1860's, but mostly carlo.

australia had censuses, but they gathered the statistics needed after each one and destroyed them. I think the last two were optional to keep at the archives per household. We have them every 5 Years, though historically i think it was 10 to start with, like other british dominions. Our bmd records are quite detailed though, perhaps that was the trade off.

[Katarzyna]

There are queries re the Porrelli's around the internet. There appears to be several Porrelli families though that may be getting confused.

https://www.stamboomforum.nl/subfora/234/2/66088/1

This is in dutch but can be easily translated para by para here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=dutc...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Also on Ancestry:

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/loca...ne/149.354.1.1

With regard to "Missing Friends:
Carmine Porrelli is inquired for at the instance of Anthony Porrelli, H.M.S. Egeria, of the Pacific Station, B.C. "
there is an article on Egeria which states that after a busy career in the East Indies ......... the ship arrived in British Columbia in 1898 and remained there until 1910.

Is it possible the brother's joined the Royal Navy in East Indies and ended up in Canada? or is this a red herring?

https://www.vmmcollections.com/Detail/vessels/673

[Sembelj03]

There are queries re the Porrelli's around the internet. There appears to be several Porrelli families though that may be getting confused.

https://www.stamboomforum.nl/subfora/234/2/66088/1

This is in dutch but can be easily translated para by para here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=dutc...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Also on Ancestry:

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/loca...ne/149.354.1.1

With regard to "Missing Friends:
Carmine Porrelli is inquired for at the instance of Anthony Porrelli, H.M.S. Egeria, of the Pacific Station, B.C. "
there is an article on Egeria which states that after a busy career in the East Indies ......... the ship arrived in British Columbia in 1898 and remained there until 1910.

Is it possible the brother's joined the Royal Navy in East Indies and ended up in Canada? or is this a red herring?

https://www.vmmcollections.com/Detail/vessels/673

The Dutch page was posted by me (I'm from the Netherlands). The Carmine Porrelli on the Ancestry page is a different Carmine than my ancestor, but seeing that they have the same first name it could be family.

Carmine did not leave the Dutch East Indies and died there on 18 December 1919. His brother Francesco however dissapeared from the records in the Dutch East Indies after 1880, so he could have migrated again.