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  • gloryer
    replied
    I am still waiting for a reply about the change on the birth certificate but my aunt in usa has sent me her copy of the birth certificate that she ordered 1962 and there was no surname given to Alma Annie and no fathers details however there is a section 13 for any additional information to be added so looks like it may have been a common practice. I have been doing more searching and found lots of newspaper reports about Edith Ethel Kulling some are quite damning. So in 1979 when the certificate was changed I have come to the conclusion that my aunt in new zealand must have seen these newspapers in the records office and decided to try to save the family reputation...... When I first made contact with my aunt in new zealand she sent me a file with family history in it and it listed Samuel Hall as the father. I didnt think to question dates or anything else as I was still reeling at finding mums six secret half siblings. lol.

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  • teasie
    replied
    Originally posted by gloryer View Post
    apparently its a normal practice in New Zealand. I have seen somebody else asking a similar question on a NZ forum. Is it allowed in this country (UK). as my dads birth certificate is wrong. Would I have the right to change it if i wanted to?
    The change on the NZ record appears to be the addition of the father, who was not married to the mother at the time of the birth, rather than a 'cosmetic' change, such as the child's name.

    There is a process to do this in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...atural-parents

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  • Jill on the A272
    replied
    Originally posted by gloryer View Post
    apparently its a normal practice in New Zealand. I have seen somebody else asking a similar question on a NZ forum. Is it allowed in this country (UK). as my dads birth certificate is wrong. Would I have the right to change it if i wanted to?
    Very difficult to change a birth certificate, friend in her forties did it, both her parents had to swear an affidavit and they had to contact the vicar at the church where she was christened to get her baptismal record. She needed to add her middle name given at baptism which was not on her birth cert, it was all to do with right of residency for her partner who is a foreign national and the original paperwork included that name but when they came to renew they rejected the birth cert as it didn't tally with friend's passport.

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  • gloryer
    replied
    apparently its a normal practice in New Zealand. I have seen somebody else asking a similar question on a NZ forum. Is it allowed in this country (UK). as my dads birth certificate is wrong. Would I have the right to change it if i wanted to?

    Leave a comment:


  • gloryer
    replied
    Originally posted by teasie View Post
    The first four digits of the reference are usually the year of the event -as per the 1910 and 1887 records - but the 1906 birth starts with 1979, suggesting the record was added or altered in 1979, if that year is significant?
    thats exactly whay I just said to my aunt but she doesnt know of anything. She did say maybe it was one of my cousins that changed it. I need to look at dates and see if thats anything in particular.

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  • teasie
    replied
    The first four digits of the reference are usually the year of the event -as per the 1910 and 1887 records - but the 1906 birth starts with 1979, suggesting the record was added or altered in 1979, if that year is significant?

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  • gloryer
    replied
    I have just confirmed with my aunt that she ordered the birth certificate in 1962 and the fathers name and details were left blank. so I have emailed the nzbmd to ask when how and by whom the details were changed.
    How bazaar this story is turning out. lol

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  • GallowayLass
    replied
    Samuel maybe admitted paternity and signed the birth certificate or Edith claimed she was already married at the time. The only way to answer the puzzle is to purchase the certificate.

    https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz

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  • Olde Crone Holden
    replied
    Oh lol, I assumed this was in England, sorry!

    OC

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  • gloryer
    replied
    Thank you for that Galloway lass. This is the bit that I dont understand. How can she marry Samuel Hall 4 years after Alma is born but Alma has Samuel Hall as the father unless she was able to add him at a later date. And you have also answered my question about Ediths father not being her biological one as he wasnt NR, not registered I assume. I believe Caroline may have had 2 children before she married Thomas Schofield. I think he was still in Yorkshire when Edith was born...lol

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  • GallowayLass
    replied
    Have you got a copy of Alma Annie’s birth certificate?
    According to the New Zealand historical BMD search, she was registered as Alma Annie HALL presumably then her father was the man her mother later married? n.b. the forenames Edith and Ethel are reversed in the two entries.
    I could not find any other child born between 1901 and 1919 with surname KULLING or HALL with a mother named Edith Ethel or the other way around. Your idea that “adopted” should have been “fostered” seems correct. I chose 1901 as the starting date assuming that would be the earliest year that Ethel could have given birth assuming that she had had a bad experience.

    1906
    Registration Number
    1979/76740
    Family Name
    Hall
    Given Name(s)
    Alma Annie
    Mother’s Given Name(s)
    Ethel Edith
    Father’s Given Name(s)
    Samuel
    1910
    Registration Number
    1910/412
    Brides’ Given Name(s)
    Edith Ethel
    Bride’s Family Name
    Kulling
    Groom’s Given Name(s)
    Samuel
    Groom’s Family Name
    Hall
    1887
    Edith Ethel is registered as Edith Eveline with no father given. Presumably you already know this?
    Registration Number Family Name Given Name(s) Mother's Given
    Name(s)
    Father's Given
    Name(s)
    1887/3025 Kulling Edith Eveline Caroline NR
    ​​​​​​

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  • Olde Crone Holden
    replied
    I'm not seeing any births at all with mmn Kulling.

    As I am sure you know, there was no formalised adoption in England until 1926 so anything before that was a private arrangement although I believe that some welfare agencies did broker their own forms of adoption.

    I have heard many a tale about babies just being handed over to someone else and I am sure some of them would have been unregistered.

    Sorry, not very helpful I know.

    OC

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  • gloryer
    started a topic adoption?

    adoption?

    so as some of you know I have been finding out a bit more about my great grandmother. I was getting DNA matches all with a common surname and have worked out the biological father of my grandmother. In the original report that I had about Edith Ethel Kulling being found destitute with a sprained ankle and heavily pregnant it said the baby was adopted, but I assume they meant fostered as she had that daughter back in 1910 when she settled down and got married. I am now left wondering because of all the reports I found about her if she did have any other children that were adopted. 3 times she was imprisoned for being a rogue and vagabond and her trade was a prostitute. This was spanned over at least 3 years so was plenty of time to have at least another child If she did have any other children would their births be registered under her name?
    My next project is to work out all the shared matches I have with my aunt. some of them have been easy since I know the biological father of my grandmother but some I cant seem to work out which is why I am now thinking along the lines of other children being adopted.....
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