Lynch and Jones brick wall.

[Jennie H]

I have hit a brick wall
In 1861 Martha and Edward Jones are living in Wrockwardine Staffordshire. He’s a miner b 1826 in Furnace Staffs.
She was born 1835 in Chirk. Plus children Thomas b 1857 and Sarah 1859.
On Mar 13 1870 Martha Perry married Edward Linch in Fenton Staffs
1871 in Fenton. Edward was born 1831 in Fenton. He’s a miner. Martha 1833 in Wales
there’s five children and they are called Lynch.
Sadly he’s killed in June 1871 in a mining accident
Martha remarried Jun 1873 to John Bolderstone. Her father is Thomas Perry.

I hope this isn’t too confusing.
I can find no marriage of Martha to Edward Jones.
I'm assuming the two Martha’s are the same person.
On Ancestry in family trees everyone has said that the name was changed from Jones to Edwards when they got married.
I can’t find him in any earlier census either.
this is a 2nd g grandfather so it’s important I get it right. Any help would be really appreciated

[Katarzyna]

Hi Jennie. Can we start with your GREAT grandfather and work back from there? Do you have his birth certificate and censuses for him and then we can work back?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Do you have the Martha Perry/Edward Linch marriage cert, which should give her marital status - spinster/widow?
Or a birth certificate for any of the children - Sarah, Joseph, Elizabeth, Edward - which should give current surname of mother, maiden name and names from any other marriages?

I think Thomas may have been registered as a Perry

I am confused by your statement On Ancestry in family trees everyone has said that the name was changed from Jones to Edwards when they got married - are you saying Edward Jones became Edward Edwards, or Martha "Jones" became Martha Edwards? Or someone else became an Edwards?

It was not unusual for a woman and her children to be assumed to have the surname of the man who was head of house when census was taken.

Jay

[Jennie H]

I’m doing this for my son in law.
I haven’t any certificates except for the wrong marriage of an Edward Jones.
I've got census returns. The rest of the family all fit into place. Lots of 2nd/3rd marriages but they seem quite straight forward.
the wrong cert is my fault as I ordered it for Martha Parry and Edward Jones. Should’ve done my homework.
It’s these Two Edwards that I find frustrating and don’t seem to be able to find them on a census before 1861 and 1871.
ive got Ancestry Sub but nothing else.

[Jennie H]

I am confused by your statement On Ancestry in family trees everyone has said that the name was changed from Jones to Edwards when they got married - are you saying Edward Jones

Sorry. I didn’t read this back very well.
Ancestry family trees seem to assume that Edward Jones became Edward Lynch

[Janet in Yorkshire]

This is the 1871 census Jennie referred to.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=15449691

All the children are recorded as Lynch.
The birth registration of Edward jnr was at Stoke and records mmn as Perry.

Jay

[Jennie H]

There is a transcript of the Lynch/Perry marriage in 1870 and her father is Henry Perry.
I have a feeling she didn’t marry Edward Jones.

[Jennie H]

I’m beginning to think I haven’t approached this one methodically and need to go and do a bit more searching for the births of these children.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

1861 census return

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=19837960

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Could this be the birth reg for Sarah??Q2 1859 Sarah Jones, mmn Perry, Guest Salop, which includes Wrockwardine

Joseph Jones mmn Perry Q2 1862 Shiffnal, which included Wrockwardine

Elizabeth Jones mmn name Perry Q4 1865 Wellington Reg Dist, yes also includes Wrockwardine.

I would be interested to know 1) marital status of Martha when she married in 1870 2) the origins of Edward Jones. I have several instances in my tree of a person being brought up using the surname of the step-father, but at marriage using and retaining their birth surname. Not going to be easy with the name Jones, unless we can unearth a Miss Lynch with a son Edward marrying a Mr Jones!
The birth cert for Edward junior might be worth getting to see what surnames are recorded for the mother, if you don't want to get the marriage cert

Jay

[Guest]

Edward Lynch March quarter 1871 Stoke on Trent volume 06B page 271 Mother Perry.

[GallowayLass]

Marriage cert. 1870. Parish Church = Christ Church, Fenton. Groom a widower and 11 years older than the bride who was a spinster.

804007EE-1DF6-432D-933A-037AE1BD5728.jpeg

[Janet in Yorkshire]

1881

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

[GallowayLass]

1840 1st marriage of Martha’s husband Edward to Emma SANDERS
Fulford Chapelry = St Nicholas, Fulford. A chapelry of St Michael, Stone parish.

E2AD4896-CD84-4427-89FF-5B8E58C7B72B.jpeg

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for ~#12 marriage record GL, a really useful document. So no previous marriage then for Martha.


Jay

[GallowayLass]

1873 Martha’s 2nd marriage. Parish Church = St James, Longton

25DBF31A-4287-485D-BDE6-E3EBEC6FC5C1.jpeg

[GallowayLass]

Martha is consistent with her father being Thomas, a collier or miner. I am struggling to find a baptism for her around 1826 which is the yob for the age she gives on one of the marriages. I also cannot find her for definite in censuses 1841-1861.

[teasie]

The 1861 & 1871 census give her YoB as c 1833-1835, and a possible for Martha and her parents in 1851, but enumerated as Mary Ann, is at Lea Brook, Wednesbury - HO107 / 2027 / 350 / 29

Thomas Perry 37 Coal Miner b Wellington, Shropshire
Harriet 37 wife b Bilston, Staffs
Mary Ann 18 b Chirk
Harriet 16 b Wellington
Amelia 7 b Bilston
Ester 5 b Darlaston
Ann 3 b Darlaston
Thomas 7m? b Wednesbury

In 1841 I think they are at Cow Wood, Wellington, with Martha again recorded as Mary
By 1861 they are at Roebuck Street, West Bromwich, but Mary/Martha is not with them - RG09 / 2024 / 15 / 27

There is a baptism at Chirk on 29 Jul 1833 Mary d/o Thomas & Harriet Perry, Collier, Chirk

I think these are the younger children's birth registrations:
PERRY, AMELIA mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON AND SEISDON Volume 17 Page 29
PERRY, HESTER mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in WALSALL UNION Volume 17 Page 252
PERRY, ANN mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1848 J Quarter in WALSALL Volume 17 Page 270
PERRY, THOMAS mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1850 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 18 Page 59

Possible (but very uncertain) marriage 28 Dec 1830 at Connah's Quay, Flintshire - Thomas Parry bachelor & miner and Harriet Jones, both of Northop

Could Martha & Mary Ann be the same person?

[Jennie H]

Wow!! Thank you so much.
It just shows what a novice I am.
I had honestly searched for some records but apart from finding some census returns and births I was really stuck. Where did the marriage certs come from please?
I can’t wait to add these to the tree. I’ve got a busy day so it will be this evening ?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Interesting to see the surname Jones cropping up in teasie's post #18 above.

Jay