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Lily Wheeler (nee Baker)
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Darksecretz the baptisms were a link in Post#34 and I have this in my treee - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...82?pId=3379502
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Originally posted by JMTaylor View PostDarksecretz the baptisms were a link in Post#34 and I have this in my treee - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...82?pId=3379502Julie
They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........
.......I find dead people
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I did make a start on the Wheeler family, and searched newspapers and have not come across any link to lily, Arthur John seems have disappeared, although there are some deaths I think?
here are the census I found Samuel Wheeler and Mary Ann Miller
1871
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...27?pId=2995202
1881 I think maybe in various places, couple with grand parents, and have found a Henry and William in workhouse
Ada
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...6?pId=22406526
1891
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...0?pId=10224284
1901 next door to George and Lily
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...3?pId=16725471
I found the following children MMN cresswell, croswell creswell
Elizabeth 1869
Florence 1870
William 1872
Henry James 1874
George Frederick 1877
Ada 1879
Rose 1881
Rose in 1911
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...15767051/facts
marriage
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...15767051/facts
Florence marriage
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...6?pId=52916021
This was as far as I got, I went to bed!
Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Charles Gould Married Ada Reynolds
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ce&pId=2825659
Eliza Baker married Harold Harcourt
Father is Joseph
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=52825660Last edited by cbcarolyn; 31-07-20, 22:02.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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you can search the Birmingham marriages by going to the catalogue
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...8&father=james
If you tick must be James it brings no matched. It could be mistranscribed, so need to look through list.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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cbcarolyn
Thank you so much for helping me with this, I constantly feel like I am getting nowhere and have to take a break before I throw the PC out the window. How do you find the births with the MMN?
I've used the information I have in my tree, the names you gave me above and then looked on GRO. I've put all this together into a table and come out with any more questions than when I started!
1. there are names which cannot be found on GRO
2. there are names on GRO which are not anywhere else
3. there are some differences in DOB
4. there are some 'issues' with Eliza / Elizabeth with various DOB's
Name DOB Source Notes Ada 1879 Ancestry tree No trace on GRO Ada 1879 FTF Amelia Ann 1841 GRO 1841 S Qtr B’ham 16-283 – MMN Cresswell Eliza 1846 GRO 1846 S Qtr B’ham 16-262 – MMN Creswell Elizabeth 1846 Ancestry tree Elizabeth 1869 FTF Elizabeth 1848 GRO 1848 M Qtr B’ham 16-263 – MMN Creswell Fanny 1862 Ancestry tree Fanny Maria 1861 GRO 1861 J Qtr B’ham 6d-191 – MMN Cresswell Florence 1870 FTF GRO MMN Treadwell George 1855-1932 Ancestry tree George Frederick 1877 FTF George Frederick 1854 GRO 1854 S Qtr B’ham 6d-143 – MMN Crosswell Hannah 1842 GRO 1842 S Qtr B’ham 16-293 – MMN Cresswell Henry James 1874 FTF GRO MMN Harmer Jane 1857 GRO 1857 M Qtr B’ham 6d-168 – MMN Creswell Laura Jane 1867-1930 Ancestry tree Laura Jane 1866 GRO 1866 S Qtr B’ham 6d-151 – MMN Cresswell Lizzie Amy 1869 Ancestry tree No trace on GRO Mary Ann 1844 GRO 1844 D Qtr B’ham 16-220 – MMN Cresswell Mary Ann Miller 1844 Ancestry tree Rose 1881 FTF GRO MMN Bromage or Smith Sarah 1853 Ancestry tree Sarah 1852 GRO 1852 S Qtr B’ham 6d-160 – MMN Creswell William 1872 FTF GRO MMN various
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Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
I found the following children MMN cresswell, croswell creswell
Elizabeth 1869
Florence 1870
William 1872
Henry James 1874
George Frederick 1877
Ada 1879
Rose 1881
WHEELER, ELIZABETH mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 145
WHEELER, FLORENCE mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 129 Occasional Copy: A
WHEELER, WILLIAM mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 157
WHEELER, HENRY JAMES mmn MILLERS GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 390
WHEELER, GEORGE FREDERICK mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 171
WHEELER, ADA mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 165
WHEELER, ROSE mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 214
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Originally posted by teasie View Post
I think this should actually say Miller/Millers
WHEELER, ELIZABETH mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 145
WHEELER, FLORENCE mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 129 Occasional Copy: A
WHEELER, WILLIAM mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 157
WHEELER, HENRY JAMES mmn MILLERS GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 390
WHEELER, GEORGE FREDERICK mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 171
WHEELER, ADA mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 165
WHEELER, ROSE mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 214Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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I use FMP (not foolproof but a good start - and don't have to be a subscriber) just to get a list of names and dates and then GRO - guidance here:
https://www.familytreeforum.com/foru...aiden-name-mmn
Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Hello
Did you ever contact the Birmingham Archives re possible Guardians records relating to why the girls ended up in St Joseph? It is possible the girls entered the workhouse (Birmingham or Aston) first. Seem to recall a post saying their religion was RC and info that the Guardians would have contributed financially to their stay at St Josephs
I did wonder if Lilley having had a child die in 1911 became depressed and ended up a long term patient in the local mental hospital ie Birmingham City Asylum, Winson Green. I can see female patients in the 1939 but so far not your Lilley.
Do you know who the Ada Baker EDIT Wheeler was as witness on Lilley's and George's mc? Wondered if Lilley reciprocated when and if Ada married. Stretching it a bit I know.
Vera
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This might work and should take you to the search for Miller and maiden name Cr*well. You will need to register on FMP first - no need to subscribe.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/...mity=5&sid=999
It will give you this list:
Miller Hannah 1842 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Miller Mary Ann 1844 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Miller Eliza 1846 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Miller Elizabeth 1848 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Miller Sarah 1852 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Miller George Frederick 1854 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Miller Jane 1857 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Miller Fanny Maria 1861 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Miller Laura J 1866 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
this is the parents Mary Ann Miller - you can get all details from GRO with this list.
Teasie has all the details of Mary Ann and Samuel Wheeler.
Fairly sure Ada is the grandchild, not daughter dates fit see my comments re 1881 post 84 I think the same for some of the others that you can't locate.
Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by vera2013 View PostHello
Do you know who the Ada Baker was as witness on Lilley's and George's mc? Wondered if Lilley reciprocated when and if Ada married. Stretching it a bit I know.
Vera
Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by vera2013 View PostHello Carolyn
Thanks. quote didn't pick up my EDIT
Will look anyway for Ada's mc. Was hoping she might have married in later life with Lilley her witness. Ever the optimist.
Vera
I also think that family 'lore' is often not correct.
eg My Dad was told by his father that he didn't have any contact with his mother (Dads grandmother) and he never saw her, but on finding a boxful of documents that Dad had kept turned out that his father had registered the death in the 1950s, so all very strange.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
Like you I am hoping that she may crop up. Or like you say she "ended up a long term patient in the local mental hospital "
I also think that family 'lore' is often not correct.
eg My Dad was told by his father that he didn't have any contact with his mother (Dads grandmother) and he never saw her, but on finding a boxful of documents that Dad had kept turned out that his father had registered the death in the 1950s, so all very strange.
Hope some little thing will crop up to help find Lilley
Vera
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not finding anything concrete on Ada, a couple of marriages and a servant in Bournemouth 2 years different on birth year - who knows.
Harry Williams is one husband, and some trees on ancestry have him, but nothing to say it is the right Ada.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
They kept things 'private' back in the day. Maybe not a bad thing but I am saddened that my mother talked little about her family, especially my great grandmother. I have unearthed a lot and now understand why. Still the best mother to me.
Vera
Julie
They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........
.......I find dead people
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vera post #91
Not contacted the archives at Birmingham Library yet, but planning to get in touch. Potentially a good call on the wellbeing front. Lily lost her parents and her first son at roughly the same timeframe, then her last daughter. This would take a toll on many people.
Ada Wheeler on Lily mc is her new husband (George) sister. The other witness is Ada's husband. Not found the mc for them, but have been in contact with a few other people on Ancestry regarding the Williams line and they have given me some photos and info etc.
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