Lily Wheeler (nee Baker)

[Darksecretz]

Minnie Baker

Possible deaths:

Deaths Sep 1870
Baker Minnie Maria 1 Aston 6d 198

Deaths Dec 1872
Baker Minnie 2 Birmingham 6d 121

I'd say that the above death is 'Your' Minnie, there are others in around Birmingham but the ages don't tally with the baptism you found, the one in red does match, as she was baptised 14th November 1872 aged 2 years, it looks also as though she was baptised privately just before she died. poor wee thing.

I'll see if I can find a burial for her.

[Darksecretz]

This link will take you to the death index for Minnie so you can add it to the tree Jane.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

[JMTaylor]

cbcarolyn - when you say you were handed an article about the pub closing, is this because it was in family possession?

I have been trying to trace this family through BHF as they were the only forum group I was aware of at the time. They provided a link to the document - https://www.britishnewspaperarchive....60523/210/0006

[Darksecretz]

I can't spot a burial for Minnie, but it might be that her burial record hasn't been filmed to be added online. [yet] but that death looks very likely.

I am however struggling to find a birth for Samuel as I can't decide what year he was born.

[JMTaylor]

Darksecretz - this is the list of the family that I am working on. I've blacked out the census as needed, but there are still gaps to find.

Although there are a few dates for Minnie's death, the one you have suggested has a MMN of PRICE
Alfreds death may just need the cert to confirm
I don't have any dates for Alfred, James, Albert or Ernest after their birth
A simple query on Samuel - I hope

Name	Born	Baptised	Death	1851	1861	1871	1881	1891	Notes
James Edward Baker	1846		1899	ü	ü	ü	ü	ü
Sarah Beardmore	1846					ü	ü	ü
Eliza Jane	1868	03.05.1880				ü	ü	ü
Minnie	1870	14.11.1872				ü
Arthur John	1871	10.05.1880					ü	ü
Alfred	1874		Death 1876?
James	1876								MMN BEADMORE
Lily	1878	15.12.1879					ü	ü	MMN BEADMORE
Samuel	1880	12.04.1880	Death 1881?				ü		Check age on 1881 – 19mnths?
Albert	1882	05.12.1881
Ernest	1883	17.09.1883							MMN BEADMORE

Would like to find the 1901 return to see where they all are.

Back to it to see what else can be found

[Darksecretz]

I can't spot a burial for Minnie, but it might be that her burial record hasn't been filmed to be added online. [yet] but that death looks very likely.

I am however struggling to find a birth for Samuel as I can't decide what year he was born.

BAKER, SAMUEL BEARDMORE
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 168

so that might make him 9 months old at the time of the census then? [and not 19 as it shows]

no, that can't be right as he is named as a wooden box maker so is Samuel a brother to James?

[Darksecretz]

Jane,

It might be that Minnie wasn't registered at birth she had a baptism shortly before she died. It wasn't compulsory until the Births Act of 1875 where ALL births had to be registered otherwise the parents would be fined.

so many had their children baptised and not registered.. but others did both. I cannot see any other death within the 10 year time frame that matches the age on the bapt for death.. [if that makes any kind of sense] Minnie would have been 2 yrs old at the time of baptism.

[JMTaylor]

A little bit more digging and......

There is a potential death of Sarah Baker (Beardmore) - Mar 1898 Age 51 Birmingham 6d 31
Lily would not appear on the 1901 census as she had married in 1898 and was listed with her husband
There are two potential deaths for James Baker - Sept 1876 Birmingham 6d 119 OR Jun 1877 Birmingham 6d 119 - seems strange to have the same GRO?
Albert has potential deaths registered in 1883 - but this is after the 1881 census and he is not listed on this
Ernest has potential deaths registered in 1881 - but this is after the 1881 census and he is not listed on this
Minnie - still no records that match after 1871
Arthur John - need to trace after 1891
Eliza Jane - need to trace after 1891

[cbcarolyn]

In an effort to find Lily I guess we don't need to worry about any of the others except as you say JMTaylor

Arthur John - need to trace after 1891 - he is with Lily in 1901 she must have been close to him if he was living with her.
Eliza Jane - need to trace after 1891

and maybe mother - but this is looking likely as you say:
There is a potential death of Sarah Baker (Beardmore) - Mar 1898 Age 51 Birmingham 6d 31

I think I had all the births either Beadmore or Beardmore

Samuel here:

BAKER, SAMUEL	BEARDMORE
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 168

Lily has been Lillian and Lilley.

[teasie]

A little bit more digging and......
Albert has potential deaths registered in 1883 - but this is after the 1881 census and he is not listed on this
Ernest has potential deaths registered in 1881 - but this is after the 1881 census and he is not listed on this

Albert & Ernest we'rent on the 1881 as they were born after the census date. These look possible for their births & deaths


BAKER, ALBERT mmn BEARDMORE GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 134 (Baptised Dec 1881, so likely born Nov/Dec 1881 & registered early 1882)
BAKER, ALBERT aged 3 GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 117 (he would actually have been almost 3)

BAKER, ERNEST mmn BEADMORE GRO Reference: 1883 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 125 (baptised 17 Sep 1883)
BAKER, ERNEST aged 0 GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 99

[cbcarolyn]

there is a marriage in 1906 William Henry Brookes - and it is not her was Elizabeth Jane (not eliza)

Another marriage to Richard Davis in 1898 (Eliza)
and assume this to be them in 1911 - and this is not her either
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...E&pId=26322008

another marriage (Eliza) in 1901 to either William George Drinkwater or William Robinson

[JMTaylor]

Just updated my list and will need to get certificates, but still looking for the following;

Eliza Jane - need to trace after 1891
Minnie - need to trace after 1871 - as mentioned by Darksecretz it may be an unregistered birth. The baptism may be a red herring?
Arthur John - need to trace after 1891 - someone on Ancestry has asked if he went abroad? Not sure why.
Lily - need to trace after 1911

Thanks to everyone for their help with this family search

[cbcarolyn]

How much do you know about George wheeler and his family, I see he has same occupation as her father, guess that doesn’t mean much as possibly a lot in the area. Wondering if they were close families?

have you done his tree and his siblings?

[JMTaylor]

Unfortunately apart from my immediate family I know very little of my heritage due to a number of family issues. My uncle (estranged from the family) is the only contact I have now that has previously done the family tree research. He may have a lot more certificates etc. I have put together my ancestry tree based on his information, some from another uncle and 'hints' and DNA from Ancestry.

George Wheelers family line is;

Born 1877
Died 1928
Married Lily Baker
Dad - Samuel Wheeler b 1846
Mom - Mary Ann Miller b 1844
Siblings;
Elizabeth Wheeler 1868-1931
Florence Wheeler 1870
William Wheeler 1872
Henry James Wheeler 1875-1919
Ada Wheeler 1879
Rose Wheeler 1881-1943

[JMTaylor]

I have found a potential marriage for Eliza Jane to George Martin in MAR 1891 (Aston 6d 499). Can't tell if it's the right person, but also found potential 1901, 1911 and 1939 with similar names;

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...5&pId=16204947

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...5&pId=25742379

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...5&pId=44903221

Still trying to sort out the final family, especially Lily - getting nowhere fast. Will take a break from this for a week soon as will be on holiday. Let's hope the sun continues to shine.

[Darksecretz]

I have found a potential marriage for Eliza Jane to George Martin in MAR 1891 (Aston 6d 499). Can't tell if it's the right person, but also found potential 1901, 1911 and 1939 with similar names;

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...5&pId=16204947

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...5&pId=25742379

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...5&pId=44903221

Still trying to sort out the final family, especially Lily - getting nowhere fast. Will take a break from this for a week soon as will be on holiday. Let's hope the sun continues to shine.

I'm not sure like you said JMTaylor what you can do though if you find a marriage try and match up the spouses names and search for them in the census, so if you have a 'Joan white' that you are looking for her marriage and you find a potential spouse of either Fred blogs or Simon saint. then you would look for Joan Blogs in the census, if you can't find her with that name then you'd try Joan Saint.. if then you find a possible match, you could then see if any children were born of that union and cross match their names in the GRO index to find their MMN. That should then help you to determine if she is yours.

[Darksecretz]

Just updated my list and will need to get certificates, but still looking for the following;

Eliza Jane - need to trace after 1891
Minnie - need to trace after 1871 - as mentioned by Darksecretz it may be an unregistered birth. The baptism may be a red herring?
Arthur John - need to trace after 1891 - someone on Ancestry has asked if he went abroad? Not sure why.
Lily - need to trace after 1911

Thanks to everyone for their help with this family search

I think that the baptism is right and she wasn't registered at birth, which is why she was baptised just before she died. {it might be that she was a sickly child and wasn't expected to live, so they didn't register her} [I'm just guessing of course, but I would think that the death I posted up thread would be right]

I spent a lot of time looking for EJ marriage and possible pairings but didn't find much really that matched. I'll have a look to see if I can find Arthur John. I'm not going outside and the blackout blind is down to shield me from the sun.

[teasie]

I have found a potential marriage for Eliza Jane to George Martin in MAR 1891 (Aston 6d 499). Can't tell if it's the right person, but also found potential 1901, 1911 and 1939 with similar names;

The certificate is on Ancestry and names her father as Samuel
Marriage: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ce&pId=2719639
1901: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...&rhSource=4994
1911: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...&rhSource=7814

[Darksecretz]

I'm not finding much on AJ after 1901 when he's with Lily & George. it's like he vanishes... I did wonder as there is such a lack of info IF he went abroad somewhere.. I have had a quick look but not seeing much.

I was wondering also how/where you had arthurs baptism? I cant seem to find it.

[JMTaylor]

thanks teasie . I can scratch that one.

Just going through another potential of Eliza Jane marries Charles Gould SEP 1891 Aston 6d 426 - but can't get any further