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Lily Wheeler (nee Baker)

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    #81
    Originally posted by teasie View Post
    good find teasie
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


      #82
      Darksecretz the baptisms were a link in Post#34 and I have this in my treee - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...82?pId=3379502

      Comment


        #83
        Originally posted by JMTaylor View Post
        Darksecretz the baptisms were a link in Post#34 and I have this in my treee - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...82?pId=3379502
        Ahh they were mistrans as Beker!.. no wonder I couldnt see it!
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


          #84
          I did make a start on the Wheeler family, and searched newspapers and have not come across any link to lily, Arthur John seems have disappeared, although there are some deaths I think?

          here are the census I found Samuel Wheeler and Mary Ann Miller
          1871
          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...27?pId=2995202

          1881 I think maybe in various places, couple with grand parents, and have found a Henry and William in workhouse
          Ada
          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...6?pId=22406526

          1891
          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...0?pId=10224284
          1901 next door to George and Lily
          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...3?pId=16725471

          I found the following children MMN cresswell, croswell creswell
          Elizabeth 1869
          Florence 1870
          William 1872
          Henry James 1874
          George Frederick 1877
          Ada 1879
          Rose 1881

          Rose in 1911
          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...15767051/facts

          marriage
          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...15767051/facts

          Florence marriage
          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...6?pId=52916021

          This was as far as I got, I went to bed!
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


            #85
            Charles Gould Married Ada Reynolds
            https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ce&pId=2825659


            Eliza Baker married Harold Harcourt

            Father is Joseph
            https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=52825660
            Last edited by cbcarolyn; 31-07-20, 22:02.
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


              #86
              you can search the Birmingham marriages by going to the catalogue
              https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...8&father=james

              If you tick must be James it brings no matched. It could be mistranscribed, so need to look through list.
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


                #87
                cbcarolyn

                Thank you so much for helping me with this, I constantly feel like I am getting nowhere and have to take a break before I throw the PC out the window. How do you find the births with the MMN?

                I've used the information I have in my tree, the names you gave me above and then looked on GRO. I've put all this together into a table and come out with any more questions than when I started!

                1. there are names which cannot be found on GRO
                2. there are names on GRO which are not anywhere else
                3. there are some differences in DOB
                4. there are some 'issues' with Eliza / Elizabeth with various DOB's
                Name DOB Source Notes
                Ada 1879 Ancestry tree No trace on GRO
                Ada 1879 FTF
                Amelia Ann 1841 GRO 1841 S Qtr B’ham 16-283 – MMN Cresswell
                Eliza 1846 GRO 1846 S Qtr B’ham 16-262 – MMN Creswell
                Elizabeth 1846 Ancestry tree
                Elizabeth 1869 FTF
                Elizabeth 1848 GRO 1848 M Qtr B’ham 16-263 – MMN Creswell
                Fanny 1862 Ancestry tree
                Fanny Maria 1861 GRO 1861 J Qtr B’ham 6d-191 – MMN Cresswell
                Florence 1870 FTF GRO MMN Treadwell
                George 1855-1932 Ancestry tree
                George Frederick 1877 FTF
                George Frederick 1854 GRO 1854 S Qtr B’ham 6d-143 – MMN Crosswell
                Hannah 1842 GRO 1842 S Qtr B’ham 16-293 – MMN Cresswell
                Henry James 1874 FTF GRO MMN Harmer
                Jane 1857 GRO 1857 M Qtr B’ham 6d-168 – MMN Creswell
                Laura Jane 1867-1930 Ancestry tree
                Laura Jane 1866 GRO 1866 S Qtr B’ham 6d-151 – MMN Cresswell
                Lizzie Amy 1869 Ancestry tree No trace on GRO
                Mary Ann 1844 GRO 1844 D Qtr B’ham 16-220 – MMN Cresswell
                Mary Ann Miller 1844 Ancestry tree
                Rose 1881 FTF GRO MMN Bromage or Smith
                Sarah 1853 Ancestry tree
                Sarah 1852 GRO 1852 S Qtr B’ham 6d-160 – MMN Creswell
                William 1872 FTF GRO MMN various




                Comment


                  #88
                  Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post

                  I found the following children MMN cresswell, croswell creswell
                  Elizabeth 1869
                  Florence 1870
                  William 1872
                  Henry James 1874
                  George Frederick 1877
                  Ada 1879
                  Rose 1881
                  I think this should actually say Miller/Millers

                  WHEELER, ELIZABETH mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 145
                  WHEELER, FLORENCE mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 129 Occasional Copy: A
                  WHEELER, WILLIAM mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 157
                  WHEELER, HENRY JAMES mmn MILLERS GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 390
                  WHEELER, GEORGE FREDERICK mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 171
                  WHEELER, ADA mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 165
                  WHEELER, ROSE mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 214

                  Comment


                    #89
                    Originally posted by teasie View Post

                    I think this should actually say Miller/Millers

                    WHEELER, ELIZABETH mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 145
                    WHEELER, FLORENCE mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 129 Occasional Copy: A
                    WHEELER, WILLIAM mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 157
                    WHEELER, HENRY JAMES mmn MILLERS GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 390
                    WHEELER, GEORGE FREDERICK mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 171
                    WHEELER, ADA mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 165
                    WHEELER, ROSE mmn MILLER GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 214
                    Doh! Cresswell is grandmother!
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                      #90
                      Originally posted by JMTaylor View Post
                      cbcarolyn

                      How do you find the births with the MMN?
                      I use FMP (not foolproof but a good start - and don't have to be a subscriber) just to get a list of names and dates and then GRO - guidance here:
                      https://www.familytreeforum.com/foru...aiden-name-mmn


                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #91
                        Hello

                        Did you ever contact the Birmingham Archives re possible Guardians records relating to why the girls ended up in St Joseph? It is possible the girls entered the workhouse (Birmingham or Aston) first. Seem to recall a post saying their religion was RC and info that the Guardians would have contributed financially to their stay at St Josephs

                        I did wonder if Lilley having had a child die in 1911 became depressed and ended up a long term patient in the local mental hospital ie Birmingham City Asylum, Winson Green. I can see female patients in the 1939 but so far not your Lilley.

                        Do you know who the Ada Baker EDIT Wheeler was as witness on Lilley's and George's mc? Wondered if Lilley reciprocated when and if Ada married. Stretching it a bit I know.

                        Vera

                        Comment


                          #92
                          This might work and should take you to the search for Miller and maiden name Cr*well. You will need to register on FMP first - no need to subscribe.
                          https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/...mity=5&sid=999

                          It will give you this list:

                          Miller Hannah 1842 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
                          Miller Mary Ann 1844 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
                          Miller Eliza 1846 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
                          Miller Elizabeth 1848 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
                          Miller Sarah 1852 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
                          Miller George Frederick 1854 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
                          Miller Jane 1857 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
                          Miller Fanny Maria 1861 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
                          Miller Laura J 1866 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

                          this is the parents Mary Ann Miller - you can get all details from GRO with this list.

                          Teasie has all the details of Mary Ann and Samuel Wheeler.

                          Fairly sure Ada is the grandchild, not daughter dates fit see my comments re 1881 post 84 I think the same for some of the others that you can't locate.
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                            #93
                            Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                            Hello


                            Do you know who the Ada Baker was as witness on Lilley's and George's mc? Wondered if Lilley reciprocated when and if Ada married. Stretching it a bit I know.

                            Vera
                            Just checked and it is Ada Wheeler, and she could be George's sister, see posts above. Can't find a parish marriage - couple of possibles in 1901 and 1902

                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                              #94
                              Hello Carolyn

                              Thanks. quote didn't pick up my EDIT

                              Will look anyway for Ada's mc. Was hoping she might have married in later life with Lilley her witness. Ever the optimist.

                              Vera

                              Comment


                                #95
                                Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                                Hello Carolyn

                                Thanks. quote didn't pick up my EDIT

                                Will look anyway for Ada's mc. Was hoping she might have married in later life with Lilley her witness. Ever the optimist.

                                Vera
                                Like you I am hoping that she may crop up. Or like you say she "ended up a long term patient in the local mental hospital "

                                I also think that family 'lore' is often not correct.

                                eg My Dad was told by his father that he didn't have any contact with his mother (Dads grandmother) and he never saw her, but on finding a boxful of documents that Dad had kept turned out that his father had registered the death in the 1950s, so all very strange.
                                Carolyn
                                Family Tree site

                                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                  #96
                                  Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post

                                  Like you I am hoping that she may crop up. Or like you say she "ended up a long term patient in the local mental hospital "

                                  I also think that family 'lore' is often not correct.

                                  eg My Dad was told by his father that he didn't have any contact with his mother (Dads grandmother) and he never saw her, but on finding a boxful of documents that Dad had kept turned out that his father had registered the death in the 1950s, so all very strange.
                                  They kept things 'private' back in the day. Maybe not a bad thing but I am saddened that my mother talked little about her family, especially my great grandmother. I have unearthed a lot and now understand why. Still the best mother to me.

                                  Hope some little thing will crop up to help find Lilley



                                  Vera

                                  Comment


                                    #97
                                    not finding anything concrete on Ada, a couple of marriages and a servant in Bournemouth 2 years different on birth year - who knows.

                                    Harry Williams is one husband, and some trees on ancestry have him, but nothing to say it is the right Ada.
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #98
                                      Originally posted by vera2013 View Post

                                      They kept things 'private' back in the day. Maybe not a bad thing but I am saddened that my mother talked little about her family, especially my great grandmother. I have unearthed a lot and now understand why. Still the best mother to me.
                                      Vera
                                      my Grandmother never spoke of her family either and as you say they 'didn't talk' about family and forebears, it was just something that wasn't spoken about perhaps true victorian values there.
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                        #99
                                        vera post #91

                                        Not contacted the archives at Birmingham Library yet, but planning to get in touch. Potentially a good call on the wellbeing front. Lily lost her parents and her first son at roughly the same timeframe, then her last daughter. This would take a toll on many people.

                                        Ada Wheeler on Lily mc is her new husband (George) sister. The other witness is Ada's husband. Not found the mc for them, but have been in contact with a few other people on Ancestry regarding the Williams line and they have given me some photos and info etc.

                                        Comment

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