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    Lily Wheeler (nee Baker)

    I have hit a brick wall trying to find my 1st Great Grandmother - Lily Baker / Wheeler. I have some basic information, but cannot source any information from 1911 onwards. Any ideas,help would be much appreciated.

    Lily Baker - born 20.05.1878
    Marries George Frederick Wheeler (DOB 19.02.1877) on 04.12.1898
    George dies 1928
    They have 5 children;
    Arthur Frederick 1899-1900
    Florence Lillian 1901 - marries William Tuzzio Jun 1933
    Doris 1902-1926
    Ellen (Helen) Mary 1904-1992 - marries John Victor 11.04.1929
    Eva Gertrude 1909-1911

    I have all the family together on the 1911 census. There is a family story that Lily and George used to 'tread the boards' but she kept staying out late. George locked her out after issuing and ultimatum. The 3 girls were put into a 'school / nunnery' which I have traced and they kept in touch with each other and their father afterwards. Another story says that a woman attended George's funeral, but when approached ran away. I have tried numerous death certificates, but they are either the wrong age, or a wrong spouse. The most recent one is for Basingstoke / Portsmouth (attached), but I am not sure if this is relevant or not.

    There is also a reference to a Lily Wheeler in the 1939 census with a Charles Langford Wheeler. I initially dismissed this as brother / sister or husband / wife. However, it may be that they were living together and 'adopted' the use of the Wheeler surname. Lily's DOB is almost a match.

    Looking for a breakthrough.

    Kind regards,
    Jane

    #2

    Just looked at 1911 and they are in Birmingham. Tried to put census up but didn't work. Still looking.

    George left a will/administration to Florence Lilian Wheeler.
    Lin

    Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

    Comment


      #3
      Jane the death cert that stands out is 1952 in Birmingham. Is that one you have tried?

      Looking at 1939 register, the date of birth is exactly a year out which seems suspicious. Also Charles Longford Wheeler dies in 1955. Not convinced if she is your Lily or not.

      Lin

      Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

      Comment


        #4
        Charles Longford Wheeler marries Lily Sprigg in 1898 Aston so 1939 not yours. Sorry.
        Lin

        Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Lin Fisher View Post
          Charles Longford Wheeler marries Lily Sprigg in 1898 Aston so 1939 not yours. Sorry.
          I saw that too lin but in the 1939 they state that they are both 'single' yet in earlier census they are married... I did wonder if by some fluke that Lily was indeed lily Wheeler nee Baker.. but like you I'm not sure now either.

          I'll have another look Jane to see if I can see anything.

          Can you please add which d/certs you have already discounted, so we don't duplicate. [No need to post certs, just the refs]
          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

          Comment


            #6
            Jane has posted this query previously on Birmingham History Forum

            There are death certs for the children and has info re death certs for Lily she had obtained to no avail.
            Kat
            https://www.pinterest.co.uk/katarzyna1234/my-own-cards/

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
              Jane has posted this query previously on Birmingham History Forum

              There are death certs for the children and has info re death certs for Lily she had obtained to no avail.
              Ah that is my fault Kat, I said that she may have more luck posting on here as there is a wider range of folks and not just living in Birmingham. I should have looked on BHF for a thread. [I'm just reading it now]
              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

              Comment


                #8
                it was back in 2015 as well so maybe more records available, have you searched the newspapers? If she was treading the boards she may have a mentions in there.

                this is what Jane wrote in 2015 a summary of some of the certs:

                "Ellen Wheeler (my nan) marriage certificate
                This shows her home address as 99 Grantham Road - not sure why here?
                This shows her fathers occupation - Church Metal Worker?
                This shows that her sister Florence was a witness

                George Frederick Wheeler - death certficate
                This shows the address as 145 Alcester Street (AKA Rowton House) - I cannot trace if he was working there or an inmate
                This shows that his daughter Florence was the informant
                This shows that his daughter Florence was living at 18 Dymoke / Dymock Street - but I also have an address of 77a Dymoke / Dymock Street

                Doris Wheeler - death certificate
                This shows that her father George was the informant

                Florence Wheeler - death certificate
                This shows her husband William as the informant

                The above leads me to believe that the daughters were still in touch with each other and their father despite being put in St Josephs Home. I do not think that they had any further contact with their mother Lily. I did ask for a copy of the death certificate (Dec 1952, but have been advised that the spouse does not match. I have another possibility for her death in Dec 1935, Birmingham 6d/ page 400 - not sure if to try, but really want to get to the bottom of this mystery."
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                  #9
                  Jane

                  Did you get this death cert?

                  Name: Lily Wheeler
                  Death Age: 74
                  Birth Date: abt 1878
                  Registration Date: Oct 1952
                  Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
                  Registration district: Birmingham
                  Inferred County: Warwickshire
                  Volume: 9c
                  Page: 546

                  I think that this might be Charles Longford/langford Wheeler wife. On looking back now I think that maybe they didn't want 'officials' noseying in and resented the register being taken.. ?

                  IF this is your Lily then why can't she be found on the 1939 register?

                  I did find a marriage though for a Lily Wheeler...

                  Marriages Dec 1913
                  Leslie Meaking - Lily Wheeler Birmingham 6d 560

                  had you seen this?

                  ETA:

                  Not sure what info the Admon will give, usually all that is written is what is often there, doesn't look like there was a will, so I don't suspect you'd gain much by getting it.
                  Last edited by Darksecretz; 26-07-20, 09:22.
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If Lily left home and either remarried, or just lived with someone, I assume they could live as husband and wife, and at the time of death he could be her 'husband' so not with regard to a death cert it could be any name?
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                      #11
                      and this one?

                      Name: Lillie Wheeler
                      Death Age: 56
                      Birth Date: abt 1879
                      Registration Date: Oct 1935
                      Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
                      Registration district: Birmingham
                      Inferred County: Warwickshire
                      Volume: 6d
                      Page: 400

                      https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
                      Julie
                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                      .......I find dead people

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi,
                        Thanks for the quick responses and the links back to BHF.

                        I have requested a number of different copies of death certs, in the vain hope of getting a 'hit', but so far no luck. These are the ones I have tried;

                        1913 - Qtr M - Reading - 02c - 435 ----- this shows Lily Wheeler wife of William Wheeler
                        1923 - Qtr S - Wycombe - 03a -804 ---- this shows Lily Wheeler wife of Thomas George Wheeler
                        1929 - Qtr J - Rotherham - 09c - 720 --- this shows Lily Wheeler wife of John Wheeler
                        1935 - Qtr D - Birmingham - 06d - 400 --- this shows Lillie Wheeler wife of Joseph Wheeler
                        1942 - Qtr M - Basingstoke - 02c - 473 --- this shows Lily Wheeler wife of ??? Wheeler (copy available, but will not let me attach)
                        1952 - Qtr d - Birmingham - 09c - 546 --- this shows Lily Wheeler wife of Charles Longford Wheeler (from the 1939 census)
                        1953 - Qtr d - Huddersfield - 02b - 706 --- this shows Lily Wheeler wife of George Henry Wheeler
                        1975 - Qtr d - Birmingham - 32 - 977 - this shows Lily Wheeler wife of Frankland Wheeler

                        I also ordered one marriage certificate;

                        1928 - Qtr D - Birmingham - 06d - 155 - this shows Lily May Wheeler age 18 (wrong age) marrying Leslie John Nicholls

                        I'll have a look at the 1913 marriage, however, she would still be married to George at this time!

                        I've also just dug out a scribbled note for a potential death in 1914 - Qtr J - B'ham - 6d - 306 - have not followed up on this one yet.

                        Thanks again
                        Jane

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by JMTaylor View Post

                          I've also just dug out a scribbled note for a potential death in 1914 - Qtr J - B'ham - 6d - 306 - have not followed up on this one yet.

                          Thanks again
                          Jane
                          Are you sure the ref is 306???
                          FreeBMD
                          Deaths Jun 1914
                          Wheeler Arthur 41 Birmingham 6d 224
                          Wheeler Lilian A 0 Birmingham 6d 208
                          Wheeler Walter 21 Birmingham 6d 322

                          From GRO
                          WHEELER, LILIAN ALICE age 0
                          GRO Reference: 1914 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 208
                          Kat
                          https://www.pinterest.co.uk/katarzyna1234/my-own-cards/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Not sure myself to be honest - my handwriting is atrocious when I scribble!

                            Looking at the note again there are two numbers - 306 and 56 - not sure why

                            Comment


                              #15
                              i'm not saying this is right BUT IF she married bigamously [which she could have] then this may be a child of that union

                              Births Jun 1914
                              MEAKING Lilian M [MMN Wheeler] Birmingham 6d 603

                              I can't see any other children born with that combination of surname & MMN.
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Interesting - Using Wheeler as MMN instead of Baker

                                Just looked on Free BMD as well, there are another 2 potential marriages - Sept 1924 and Sep 1927. Both of these would have to be bigamous as George was still alive till 1928.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by JMTaylor View Post
                                  Interesting - Using Wheeler as MMN instead of Baker

                                  Just looked on Free BMD as well, there are another 2 potential marriages - Sept 1924 and Sep 1927. Both of these would have to be bigamous as George was still alive till 1928.
                                  maybe if hubby went with her she couldn't say Baker as a MMN as she had given Wheeler as her MN.

                                  Don't send off for any certs yet, just see if you can eliminate via Electoral Rolls or if any of the marriages appear in Ancestry. [or you can find them in the 1939 register]

                                  Popped out to go and get a lampshade, and just had lunch so I'll be about for a little while though I do need to finish painting the bedroom ceiling..
                                  you could also see if any children are born to the unions and that could help confirm/deny.
                                  Julie
                                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                  .......I find dead people

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                    i'm not saying this is right BUT IF she married bigamously [which she could have] then this may be a child of that union

                                    Births Jun 1914
                                    MEAKING Lilian M [MMN Wheeler] Birmingham 6d 603

                                    I can't see any other children born with that combination of surname & MMN.
                                    oooooooo

                                    Name: Lily Meakin
                                    Death Age: 67
                                    Birth Date: abt 1877
                                    Registration Date: Jul 1944
                                    Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
                                    Registration district: Birmingham
                                    Inferred County: Warwickshire
                                    Volume: 6d
                                    Page: 45

                                    IF this is right then we should be able to trace her on the 1939 Register.

                                    off to have a look
                                    Julie
                                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                    .......I find dead people

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post

                                      oooooooo

                                      Name: Lily Meakin
                                      Death Age: 67
                                      Birth Date: abt 1877
                                      Registration Date: Jul 1944
                                      Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
                                      Registration district: Birmingham
                                      Inferred County: Warwickshire
                                      Volume: 6d
                                      Page: 45

                                      IF this is right then we should be able to trace her on the 1939 Register.

                                      off to have a look
                                      hmmn

                                      that Lily may well be this Lily

                                      https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                        and this one?

                                        Name: Lillie Wheeler
                                        Death Age: 56
                                        Birth Date: abt 1879
                                        Registration Date: Oct 1935
                                        Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
                                        Registration district: Birmingham
                                        Inferred County: Warwickshire
                                        Volume: 6d
                                        Page: 400

                                        https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
                                        don't worry I've just noticed that you had got this and it was wrong.

                                        Julie
                                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                        .......I find dead people

                                        Comment

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