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Charles Boldero Souter b1878

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    Charles Boldero Souter b1878

    I am trying to trace the Marriage? and Death of Charles Souter.
    Charles was b 1878 in Walthamstow Essex England his parents were Henry Souter b 1849 -1900 and Mary C. Whitmell b 1851.
    He emigrated to New South Wales Australia 1913 and enlisted in the Australian Army and served 1914-1919.
    His regiment was the 4th Royal Artillery 1st Brigade his serial No. 3976.
    I am trying to find out whether he married hence the question mark the reason is that early in his Army record he is asked the question are you married ? his answer is No but later in his record he again is asked the question and his answer is Yes, but i can not find any marriage record.
    There is a letter in his records that he sent to the Melbourne Records Office requesting a copy of his discharge papers it is dated 1936 and gives his home address being 22 West Street, Guildford New South Wales.
    I have been searching various records for his death but with no luck so far, i have searched the Australian Find a Grave. Contacted National Archives Australia no reply yet.
    Cumberland Council that looks after Guildford NSW also no reply yet.
    If anyone has any information or can point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

    Thank you

    ​​​​​​​Kind Regards

    ​​​​​​​Tony Suter

    #2
    This is the only death of a Charles SOUTER with a father called Henry. No middle name though and the mother’s forename is different. You said she was Mary C WHITMELL. GRO has her middle name as Charlotte. Perhaps she went by her middle name?

    SOUTER CHARLES
    Registration number 16978/1951
    Father's Given Name(s)
    HENRY
    Mother's Given Name(s)
    CHARLOTTE
    District
    LIVERPOOL

    Comment


      #3
      I’d buy the death certificate first and it should give you the name of his parents, wife and any children. Should it turn out that his wife was called Ada, this is the marriage that fits. There were two other Charles SOUTER who married in NSW before and just after WW1 but they have a middle initial that does not match your man. Given the lack of middle name in the death entry above which I think ought to be him, this marriage is also first forename only. As I’m sure you already know Liverpool in South West Sydney and Ryde is North West Sydney. Guildford is between the two.
      Good luck!

      Registration number
      9560/1900
      Groom's Family Name
      SOUTER
      Groom's Given Name(s)
      CHARLES
      Bride's Family Name(s)
      PRATLEYBride's Given Name(s)
      ADA
      District
      RYDE

      Comment


        #4
        I have found a Charles Souter at various addresses in the Electoral Registers. The earliest entry is 1933. In 1936 he is at the exact address you have on the letter for request of his discharge papers. Each register has him on his own (by which I mean there is no other person with the surname Souter) and of no occupation except for 1949 (only 2 years before I suspect he died). In that register his address is State Hospital in the subdivision of a Liverpool and he is labourer.
        This site gives details of the records held for the Hospital. The records are thorough by the looks of things so it’s well worth tracking them down.
        https://researchdata.edu.au/register...al-home/172260

        Comment


          #5
          From findagrave.com this could be his burial but would need to look up the location of the cemetery vis a vis the hospital.
          UPDATE - presumably the toll road was not there in 1951 so a car journey between the two places would be about 50 minutes.

          Charles Souter
          Birthdate unknown
          6 Sep 1951
          Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park
          Matraville, Randwick City, New South Wales, Australia
          A12 - Anglican FM 12, Position 1037
          174874596 · View Source
          Last edited by GallowayLass; 15-07-20, 19:11. Reason: Update

          Comment


            #6
            Fron the death date GallowayLass found, this is in Trove,

            6 Sep 1951

            Attached Files
            Elaine

            Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

            http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
            http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

            Comment


              #7
              If I have the right marriage, there were 5 children to Charles and Ada all born in Ryde between 1902 and 1911. 3 boys and 2 girls.

              I have also discovered that the NSW BMD search engine is a bit odd. If I add in Boldero as Charles’ other given name in his death entry, I still get the same match BUT if I put a different other name, I still get the same match. Weird ! Looks like it only searches on a first forename regardless. Maybe somebody with more Australian search expertise can advise on that.

              As a complete aside - I notice your online tree has no death detail for Mary Charlotte SOUTER. She died 1913 in Dover, Kent according to GRO online death index. Her age at death is a decade out though as she was born 1851 so should have been aged about 61/62. It’s only a couple of years out on 1911 census which has her as a widow. Again, this is assuming I have not gone off on the wrong track. Can’t find another match though.
              SOUTER, MARY CHARLOTTE 71
              GRO Reference: 1913 D Quarter in DOVER Volume 02A Page 1230
              WHITMELL, MARY CHARLOTTE PARKER
              GRO Reference: 1851 J Quarter in SAINT LUKE MIDDLESEX Volume 02 Page 286

              Comment


                #8
                UPDATE to posts #3 and #7
                I am now pretty sure I have gone wrong on the marriage between Charles and Ada as there is a society type article in the Cumberland Argus describing this marriage and despite the surname of Charles being given as SONTER rather than SOUTER, he is said to be the 3rd son of James SONTER of Epping which is the same place as Ada lives.
                There are numerous trees on ancestry with this couple and the children that I found in the state indexes. Every entry in those indexes shows as SOUTER though and not SONTER.
                Charles is meant to have been born 1875. I have checked this and there is a birth that year in Parramatta for a Charles, son to James and Susannah but it is listed as SOUTER.
                Despite the confusion in the surnames in the newspaper report and the online trees (some do have SOUTER or both alternatives), the fact of the different parents and an Australian birth rules out your Charles.

                Back to square one on the marriage, I am sorry to say however the 1951 death could still be correct as the husband of Ada PRATLEY died 18 December 1950 and is buried at Rookwood in the same plot as Ada.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I can’t see another marriage to fit for your Charles anytime 1913 to the possible death date in 1951. The others all have different middle names or middle initials.
                  My apologies for not spotting in the first place that he didn’t reach Australia till 1913 which obviously would have instantly ruled out the Charles and Ada marriage.
                  I’m beginning to think he was not married after all but I would try the Liverpool Hospital records first and then if there’s any chance that it could be your Charles who was admitted there, then I would purchase the 1951 death certificate. Australian death certificates are quite costly but they are very detailed indeed compared even to the Scottish ones that I am used to but as usual it all depends on whether the informant actually knew anything about the deceased. I hope you don’t end up with one full of blank spaces but you do need to be prepared for that eventuality.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I would think the death would be quite informative, as both parents are listed. Going via a transcript over an image is cheaper. But you can never be sure a transcript is 100% correct.

                    nsw bmd has a list of authorised transcribers. To my knowledge, the only registry that does this.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Many thanks for the pm. Glad to have helped find you the correct man.
                      GL

                      Comment

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