How do I prove this?

[Darksecretz]

I'm trying to do a bit of FH too but have come across a bit of a problem... TWO Sarah Shepherds and Shepperds neither of them living at home and both aged 16! one is a servant and the other is a tinplate worker [this is in Birmingham UK] both born in Birmingham too. I'm not at all sure just how I can prove the one over the other is 'my' Sarah? I did think that maybe their address' in the 1861 census [which is the one I'm having issues with] might help but there is no guarantee that they stayed near home is there? I just don't know.. head not in right place I suspect.

can anyone help shed any light on which one would be mine, please.

Sarah #1 https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

Sarah #2 https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...32&usePUB=true

[Darksecretz]

Another question.. if someone was a house servant would they be 'live in'? or would they treat it like being in a factory where you physically go to a place of work?

[GallowayLass]

Oh heavens! After the two Harriet Emmas last night, I think I’ll sit this one out LOL

[Darksecretz]

Oh heavens! After the two Harriet Emmas last night, I think I’ll sit this one out LOL

LOL! I'm just in a quandry as to which one it is in the 1861 census, I have her in every census after that and when she married and died.. it's just the 1861..I was thinking that 'if' and a big IF it is, she was a servant that she might not have been a live in one? she could have been 'sent out' to work to help bring in money for the family? does that make any sort of logic?

[cbcarolyn]

you have all other census? Guess maybe hard, I have no expertise but i would probably

• have a look into the head of the house, and see if there is any connection,
• see if the addresses are near to family home (are you not able to locate the address on a map is that what you mean?)
• Check the newspapers
• marriage cert - although I notice that generally women were so insignificant in those days if they were working they didn't always have occupation!
• anyone else a tinplate worker in the family?

When did she get married eg when was she no longer a shepherd? I will have a look at papers - you never know.

[Darksecretz]

hi Carolyn,

she married in 1864 I don't have the marriage cert but do have a transcript of the marriage. I have her in every census until she dies in 1913.

I have tried looking at the head of house for the servant to the draper but no connection that I can see to Sarah. the address she is at in 1861 is Sherlock Street and that is not that far from Darwin street where her parents were living when she was born. They seem to stay around that area, her parents are in myrtle place, hope street in 1861 so that is literally around the corner.. they also move from street to street and end up on Inge street. Most of this side of the family end up on inge street at some point in their lives.. am cursed with the place!!!

so, after a bit of googling I am kind of erring towards Sarah @ Sherlock street being my Sarah, on the premise that she wouldn't have been a live in servant to a mere draper!..

does my thinking seem sound?

[cbcarolyn]

is the draper a shop do you think, there is a tailor and a butcher etc in road, no idea what that brings to the party though.

wonder if she is friends/relation with the other boarder Ann Terry in hospital street?

[Darksecretz]

is the draper a shop do you think, there is a tailor and a butcher etc in road, no idea what that brings to the party though.

wonder if she is friends/relation with the other boarder Ann Terry in hospital street?

I have no idea... though the same could be said for Ann Felkin Steadman d/o Sarah Steadman in Sherlock Street. That area along wth Inge Street/Hurst Street were known for their Tailoring and there were a lot of tailors in that area..

Hospital street is more topside of the city though.. praps near to small heath etc.. I'll have to ask on the BHF s=to see if they can shed an light on it... though thinking about it maybe there are trade directories that Sarah Steadman is in?

have to pop to the tip.. bb shortly

[Gardengirl]

hi Carolyn,

she married in 1864 I don't have the marriage cert but do have a transcript of the marriage. I have her in every census until she dies in 1913.

I have tried looking at the head of house for the servant to the draper but no connection that I can see to Sarah. the address she is at in 1861 is Sherlock Street and that is not that far from Darwin street where her parents were living when she was born. They seem to stay around that area, her parents are in myrtle place, hope street in 1861 so that is literally around the corner.. they also move from street to street and end up on Inge street. Most of this side of the family end up on inge street at some point in their lives.. am cursed with the place!!!

so, after a bit of googling I am kind of erring towards Sarah @ Sherlock street being my Sarah, on the premise that she wouldn't have been a live in servant to a mere draper!..

does my thinking seem sound?

My only thought is that maybe she worked as house servant to the draper in exchange for a bed to sleep in. Were there many others living in her parents house? I have come across one or two in the past where it looks as if, when then house gets too crowded, the oldest daughter moves to a nearby house - my guess is to help with housework in exchange for a room.

[cbcarolyn]

yes she is in trade directory as a draper
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...=successSource

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...BoCO0MQAvD_BwE

so at least you know a bit more about the establishment. Possibly work in the shop too.

[cbcarolyn]

so, after a bit of googling I am kind of erring towards Sarah @ Sherlock street being my Sarah, on the premise that she wouldn't have been a live in servant to a mere draper!..

does my thinking seem sound?

bit confused by this - the draper is in Sherlock Street - did you mean Hospital street at tin plate maker?

What were her parents/siblings doing?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Sorry, but in the 1860s, a house servant always lived in, in my experience. Wages were extremely poor for house servants and nearly everyone could afford a servant, certainly a draper could. A servant was today's equivalent of a washing machine and hoover, lol - all but the poorest of the poor could afford a servant or two.

OC

[Darksecretz]

bit confused by this - the draper is in Sherlock Street - did you mean Hospital street at tin plate maker?

What were her parents/siblings doing?

Hospital street has Sarah as a tin plate worker.. but Hospital street is quite a way away from where her parents were living on Hope street..

and Sherlock street has a Sarah working as a servant at the Drapers shop...

[Darksecretz]

What were her parents/siblings doing?

1861: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...Fedit%2Frecord

Thomas & Sarah Shepherd, right at the bottom of the page.


oh rightio OC am a bit confused by this...

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I think the one with the draper is in her employ, a living in domestic servant, engaged to do the housework whilst the draper conducts her own affairs. The other Sarah is recorded as a boarder, so she is in the residence for bed and board and goes out to her employment every day.

Don't know that that helps with sorting out which is yours, though. When did either girl get married and what was their address?

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

What did other daughters of Thomas and Sarah do? Were they found a place in domestic service or were they sent out to work in a factory?

Jay

[Darksecretz]

What did other daughters of Thomas and Sarah do? Were they found a place in domestic service or were they sent out to work in a factory?

Jay

Not sure at the moment Jay, in the middle of cooking with my son. now I have a 10min window I'll have a gozz

[Darksecretz]

Right. Address for my Sarah when she married was Hope Street [which is where her parents lived in 1861] Emily b.1850 was a warehouse woman, Thomas b. 1839 was a Blacksmith.

I'm just checking the others to see what their professions were

[Darksecretz]

My 'Sarahs' siblings all seemed to go out to work.. or they married as soon as they could and started their own families.

I'm not quite sure just what to think... it's a bit of a difficult situation to be in. I'll have a look to see if I can track Sarah from Hosptial Street [though I'm not even hopeful of that]

thanks everybody.

[cbcarolyn]

all conjecture here - but wondering if it is her in service, otherwise as there are elder siblings still at home with jobs, why wouldn't she have stayed?

need to track the other Sarah