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    How do I prove this?

    I'm trying to do a bit of FH too but have come across a bit of a problem... TWO Sarah Shepherds and Shepperds neither of them living at home and both aged 16! one is a servant and the other is a tinplate worker [this is in Birmingham UK] both born in Birmingham too. I'm not at all sure just how I can prove the one over the other is 'my' Sarah? I did think that maybe their address' in the 1861 census [which is the one I'm having issues with] might help but there is no guarantee that they stayed near home is there? I just don't know.. head not in right place I suspect.

    can anyone help shed any light on which one would be mine, please.

    Sarah #1 https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

    Sarah #2 https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...32&usePUB=true
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    #2
    Another question.. if someone was a house servant would they be 'live in'? or would they treat it like being in a factory where you physically go to a place of work?
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


      #3
      Oh heavens! After the two Harriet Emmas last night, I think I’ll sit this one out LOL

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
        Oh heavens! After the two Harriet Emmas last night, I think I’ll sit this one out LOL
        LOL! I'm just in a quandry as to which one it is in the 1861 census, I have her in every census after that and when she married and died.. it's just the 1861..I was thinking that 'if' and a big IF it is, she was a servant that she might not have been a live in one? she could have been 'sent out' to work to help bring in money for the family? does that make any sort of logic?
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


          #5
          you have all other census? Guess maybe hard, I have no expertise but i would probably
          • have a look into the head of the house, and see if there is any connection,
          • see if the addresses are near to family home (are you not able to locate the address on a map is that what you mean?)
          • Check the newspapers
          • marriage cert - although I notice that generally women were so insignificant in those days if they were working they didn't always have occupation!
          • anyone else a tinplate worker in the family?

          When did she get married eg when was she no longer a shepherd? I will have a look at papers - you never know.
          Last edited by cbcarolyn; 15-07-20, 13:29.
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


            #6
            hi Carolyn,

            she married in 1864 I don't have the marriage cert but do have a transcript of the marriage. I have her in every census until she dies in 1913.

            I have tried looking at the head of house for the servant to the draper but no connection that I can see to Sarah. the address she is at in 1861 is Sherlock Street and that is not that far from Darwin street where her parents were living when she was born. They seem to stay around that area, her parents are in myrtle place, hope street in 1861 so that is literally around the corner.. they also move from street to street and end up on Inge street. Most of this side of the family end up on inge street at some point in their lives.. am cursed with the place!!!

            so, after a bit of googling I am kind of erring towards Sarah @ Sherlock street being my Sarah, on the premise that she wouldn't have been a live in servant to a mere draper!..

            does my thinking seem sound?
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


              #7
              is the draper a shop do you think, there is a tailor and a butcher etc in road, no idea what that brings to the party though.

              wonder if she is friends/relation with the other boarder Ann Terry in hospital street?
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                is the draper a shop do you think, there is a tailor and a butcher etc in road, no idea what that brings to the party though.

                wonder if she is friends/relation with the other boarder Ann Terry in hospital street?
                I have no idea... though the same could be said for Ann Felkin Steadman d/o Sarah Steadman in Sherlock Street. That area along wth Inge Street/Hurst Street were known for their Tailoring and there were a lot of tailors in that area..

                Hospital street is more topside of the city though.. praps near to small heath etc.. I'll have to ask on the BHF s=to see if they can shed an light on it... though thinking about it maybe there are trade directories that Sarah Steadman is in?

                have to pop to the tip.. bb shortly
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                  hi Carolyn,

                  she married in 1864 I don't have the marriage cert but do have a transcript of the marriage. I have her in every census until she dies in 1913.

                  I have tried looking at the head of house for the servant to the draper but no connection that I can see to Sarah. the address she is at in 1861 is Sherlock Street and that is not that far from Darwin street where her parents were living when she was born. They seem to stay around that area, her parents are in myrtle place, hope street in 1861 so that is literally around the corner.. they also move from street to street and end up on Inge street. Most of this side of the family end up on inge street at some point in their lives.. am cursed with the place!!!

                  so, after a bit of googling I am kind of erring towards Sarah @ Sherlock street being my Sarah, on the premise that she wouldn't have been a live in servant to a mere draper!..

                  does my thinking seem sound?
                  My only thought is that maybe she worked as house servant to the draper in exchange for a bed to sleep in. Were there many others living in her parents house? I have come across one or two in the past where it looks as if, when then house gets too crowded, the oldest daughter moves to a nearby house - my guess is to help with housework in exchange for a room.
                  Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    yes she is in trade directory as a draper
                    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...=successSource

                    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...BoCO0MQAvD_BwE

                    so at least you know a bit more about the establishment. Possibly work in the shop too.

                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post

                      so, after a bit of googling I am kind of erring towards Sarah @ Sherlock street being my Sarah, on the premise that she wouldn't have been a live in servant to a mere draper!..

                      does my thinking seem sound?
                      bit confused by this - the draper is in Sherlock Street - did you mean Hospital street at tin plate maker?

                      What were her parents/siblings doing?

                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Sorry, but in the 1860s, a house servant always lived in, in my experience. Wages were extremely poor for house servants and nearly everyone could afford a servant, certainly a draper could. A servant was today's equivalent of a washing machine and hoover, lol - all but the poorest of the poor could afford a servant or two.

                        OC

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post

                          bit confused by this - the draper is in Sherlock Street - did you mean Hospital street at tin plate maker?

                          What were her parents/siblings doing?
                          Hospital street has Sarah as a tin plate worker.. but Hospital street is quite a way away from where her parents were living on Hope street..

                          and Sherlock street has a Sarah working as a servant at the Drapers shop...
                          Julie
                          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                          .......I find dead people

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post


                            What were her parents/siblings doing?
                            1861: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...Fedit%2Frecord

                            Thomas & Sarah Shepherd, right at the bottom of the page.


                            oh rightio OC am a bit confused by this...
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I think the one with the draper is in her employ, a living in domestic servant, engaged to do the housework whilst the draper conducts her own affairs. The other Sarah is recorded as a boarder, so she is in the residence for bed and board and goes out to her employment every day.

                              Don't know that that helps with sorting out which is yours, though. When did either girl get married and what was their address?

                              Jay
                              Janet in Yorkshire



                              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                              Comment


                                #16
                                What did other daughters of Thomas and Sarah do? Were they found a place in domestic service or were they sent out to work in a factory?

                                Jay
                                Janet in Yorkshire



                                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                                  What did other daughters of Thomas and Sarah do? Were they found a place in domestic service or were they sent out to work in a factory?

                                  Jay
                                  Not sure at the moment Jay, in the middle of cooking with my son. now I have a 10min window I'll have a gozz
                                  Julie
                                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                  .......I find dead people

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Right. Address for my Sarah when she married was Hope Street [which is where her parents lived in 1861] Emily b.1850 was a warehouse woman, Thomas b. 1839 was a Blacksmith.

                                    I'm just checking the others to see what their professions were
                                    Julie
                                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                    .......I find dead people

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      My 'Sarahs' siblings all seemed to go out to work.. or they married as soon as they could and started their own families.

                                      I'm not quite sure just what to think... it's a bit of a difficult situation to be in. I'll have a look to see if I can track Sarah from Hosptial Street [though I'm not even hopeful of that]

                                      thanks everybody.
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        all conjecture here - but wondering if it is her in service, otherwise as there are elder siblings still at home with jobs, why wouldn't she have stayed?

                                        need to track the other Sarah
                                        Carolyn
                                        Family Tree site

                                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                        Comment

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