Lost post 1813 - seaman Philip Colman and his convict wife Ann Colman, nee Lever.

[teasie]

It looks like Norfolk Records Office may have further details of the inquest. The description is a summary, but hopefully the actual record may be more detailed (No. 34):

http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk/DServe/...20colman%27%29

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thank you teasie - that summary gives an address, so could be useful in trying to track down further details of this Ann Colman to see if she is one belonging to my tree. Thank you too for reminding me about Norcat - it used to be one of my regular search devices, but as more Norfolk stuff had come on line via the big subscription sites, I've not used it for some time and it had slipped my memory.

Jay

[teasie]

Thank you teasie - that summary gives an address, so could be useful in trying to track down further details of this Ann Colman

The address (the Sun, St Clement) is where the inquest was held, not Ann's address, unfortunately. If you read through the list you'll see most of them mention pubs, as for some reason this is where most inquests were held.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

The address (the Sun, St Clement) is where the inquest was held, not Ann's address, unfortunately. If you read through the list you'll see most of them mention pubs, as for some reason this is where most inquests were held.

I think it was very common to hold inquests in pubs - no village halls, council offices, coroner's office in those days, lol. Inquests in the villages around me at that time were held in pubs - needed somewhere large enough to accommodate the gentlemen of the jury, should calling a jury be decided upon.
I realised the address was of the pub, but thought the pub location might indicate which area of the city she lived in - there were loads of pubs in Norwich. I could then compare it with the locations of the parishes where her daughters resided.Still won't prove anything of course!

Jay

[Katarzyna]

There wasn't one in Norwich St Clements called The Sun. Most likely to be the "Sun and Anchor" in St Clements, I think Jay and probably known locally as "The Sun".

http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/norwich...ich/ncsaa1.htm

Other Suns in Norwich.

http://norfolkpubs.co.uk/norwich/snorwich/norsun.htm

[teasie]

As per the newspaper report, it was the Sun public house at New Catton, mentioned here in an 1842 Norwich Guide & Directory as the Sun Inn, Sun Lane, New Catton: https://tinyurl.com/ycs2drrj

[Katarzyna]

As per the newspaper report, it was the Sun public house at New Catton, mentioned here in an 1842 Norwich Guide & Directory as the Sun Inn, Sun Lane, New Catton: https://tinyurl.com/ycs2drrj

Yes, sorry that's correct Teasie. It didn't come up for Norwich St Clements - it's Norfolk Catton...St Clements Without

http://norfolkpubs.co.uk/norfolkc/catton/ncatsun.htm

[teasie]

Yes, sorry that's correct Teasie. It didn't come up for Norwich St Clements - it's Norfolk Catton...St Clements Without

http://norfolkpubs.co.uk/norfolkc/catton/ncatsun.htm

Woah, great find Kat!

I see the landlord in 1830-1836 was George THURSBY. He was 40 in the 1841 census so born around 1797-1801, and there was a baptism in Worstead on 9 Jun 1799 (born 4 Jun 1799) of a George Whiliam Mackley Thorisby (sic) son of Edward Thorisby ann Ann his wife, late Lever.

Don't know how I missed that baptism when I looked earlier, but this would mean he was Ann Colman's son from her first marriage

ADDED:
In 1851 George is a Cellarman in Liverpool, although his wife Sarah is not with him HO107/2183/216/29
By 1861 George & Sarah are at living in Everton, West Derby - RG09/2710/93 /35 - and he is a Cooper

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Oh wow, you have been busy whilst I've been sleeping! Thank you so much. I had seen that Worstead baptism (George William Mackley Thorisby) and had wondered what became of the child and also of Rebecca Later Thursby.
I found the burial of Edward Thursby in Worstead in April 1802 and in June 1802 the banns were called for the marriage between Ann & Philip Colman, so she didn't hang about! Rebecca daughter of Philp and Ann was baptised 8 months later in February 1803.
I couldn't find a burial for Rebecca Larter Thursby bp privately in late December 1800 - I'm assuming she died because of the later Rebecca, alleged daughter of Ann and Philip.

I still think Ann Colman would have needed some funding to return from Australia, so perhaps it came from her family????

Years ago, when I first found the bps of the two girls from the Philip Colman & Ann marriage, I had assumed (yes, I know assume can mean make an ASS out of U and ME!!) that the forename Rebecca came from Philip's side of the family as there have been several Rebecca Colmans. However, that now seems unlikely due to Ann having had an earlier Rebecca Larter Thursby.I have now found a Rebeckah Larter bp Norwich 1780 d/o Joshua Larter and Ann Canby. Joshua and Ann Larter also had a daughter Ann bp Norwich St Mary Coslany in 1778. Seems they also had a Robert bp 1773, Sarah 1782 and Joseph 1785.
Joshua Larter & Ann Canby married Norwich St Benedict 16 Feb 1771.
I have to go offline for a bit, now, but would appreciate opinions.

ETA - scrub the above - I'd forgotten the Larter/Levers marriage! Unless Joshua Larter & Mrs Levers were related. I think I feel a headache coming on! Poor writing and mistranscriptions don't help either

Jay

[vera2013]

Oh

I still think Ann Colman would have needed some funding to return from Australia, so perhaps it came from her family????




Jay

I saw something about journey in 1917 being Government funded. Governor not happy about voyages Kangaroo was making. Soon after on return to UK it was sold. Need to check my history

Vera

[vera2013]

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource There is an Ann Coleman mentioned in a letter from the Secretary's Office 29 March 1817 who came under the heading of

A List of Passengers who had been convicts permitted by his Excellency to embark in ?HMB Kangaroo for England to be EDIT victualled at the expense of the Crown. So maybe only fed Ann

On Ancestry. Will try one of Carolyn's screen shots

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks Vera. I do have the relevant image, but thought it just applied to the pardoned convicts being fed and watered during passage???? Can't find anything about availability of FREE passage home; some were granted the right to work before the end of the sentence, so I suppose it might have been possible for her to earn and save, supplemented by relatives??? Or, the governor wanted rid of her??? At least the pardon and the date of the return journey (1817) proves that she could not have been the mother of my ancestress who was bp 1816.

Jay