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Lost post 1813 - seaman Philip Colman and his convict wife Ann Colman, nee Lever.

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    Lost post 1813 - seaman Philip Colman and his convict wife Ann Colman, nee Lever.

    Sorry, it's rather long and a bit convoluted.

    Philip Colman was born at Trunch, Norfolk, where he was bp in 1773.
    In September 1802 he married widow Ann Thorseby in Worstead Norfolk - Ann (nee Lever no bp found) had previous married Edward Thoresby in 1799 at Worstead Norfolk, where Edward was buried in April 1802. Philip served in the navy and there are records of his allotment payments payable to his wife Ann Colman 1802 until 1809.
    Daughter Rebecca was born at Worstead in 1803 and another daughter Mary Ann was baptised at Trunch (where Philip's parents lived) in 1808.
    Ann seems to have been a bit of a "wrong un."In 1809 Philip's younger brother Stephen (my ancestor) lodged with Ann. Both were prosecuted for receiving stolen property, which was discovered in the ceiling loft above Steven's bedroom. Both were sentenced to transportation, but local land owners petitioned on behalf of Stephen, claiming he had been led astray by Ann (some years his senior) and his sentence was commuted to 6 years on a hulk on the Thames.
    In Feb1809 Ann was sent to Australia for seven years - was pardoned in 1817 and sailed from Australia on the brig Kangaroo 5 July 1817. This is the last definitive record I have for her.
    I have found allotment records for Philip Colman 1809- 1812, the money (presumably for the upkeep of the girls) being allocated to his father as his wife had been transported. In 1812 during a war with America, Philip was serving on HMS Java, which was in conflict with USS Constitution and he was taken prisoner but released into the charge of the British consulate at Bahia (in Brazil) in January1813. This is the last reference I have for Philip.
    Both of the couple's daughters married in Norwich in the 1820's, had families and I've got the relevant records for their lives post marriage, although I don't know WHY they were in Norwich in the 1820's - Philip's parents and siblings remained in their native village I think.

    My ancestor Stephen Colman was eventually pardoned in 1815 and returned to his native village Trunch, where he married widow Elizabeth Pratt of the next village in her home parish in September 1816.Their first child, Susanna,was born on December 17th and baptised in the village church on 31st December. The vicar recorded her as the child of Stephen and ANN. All subsequent children were recorded as children of Stephen and Elizabeth. This confused me for years and we thought that perhaps her mother had been named Elizabeth Ann.Then eventually finding out about the link between Stephen and his sister in law Ann made me wonder if Susanna was in fact the illegitimate child of Stephen and his sister-in-law. However, the date of Ann's pardon (1817) makes this impossible and it could perhaps have been that the vicar had a long memory and when writing up the baptism recalled the past carryings on Stephen and Mrs Philip Colman and attributed the wrong name to his wife.

    So can anyone with time on their hands throw any light on what became of seaman Philip Colman post January 1813 and his convict wife Ann Colman, formerly Thoresby and nee Lever post 1817?

    Thanks for reading.

    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    #2
    Did look Jay. Nothing additional to add re Philip.

    Checked out the Philip Coleman's who resided in Horning, Sfk but they checked out.

    There are Allotment, POW and Pension records post marriage to Anne but little added info in Pensions. One Pension record 1824 for a Philip Coleman looked promising. On FMP He had been wounded and allocated a life pension but
    Servitude only 12 years 10 months.

    Will take a look at Anne

    Vera

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Vera. Philip also had a nephew named Philip, also born at Trunch.

      Jay
      Janet in Yorkshire



      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

      Comment


        #4
        Cannot help sorry but most impressed with what you have found out so far, congrats on that


        Val

        Comment


          #5
          I assume the Philip Colman who died in 1840 aged 78 wont be him? transcribed as dying in Tunstead & Happing


          Val

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks Val - wasn't all done at once. I tend to work on an extended family and note down all I can and then go back from time to time. Every time a new database comes out I try to remember to investigate main family names and collect what I can and then see if any bits mesh together, The above is a culmination of several years work.My ancestor was born,married, raised his kids and died all in the same little village. At first glance it looked as if he'd never been as far as the local town. Nearly fell off my chair when I found records of his trial and sentencing. Then I found out about Ann being transported. A couple of years later I found details of the trial and was startled to find of the connection between Ann and Stephen and then the notes on Philip and the allotment payments suddenly clicked into place.

            Jay
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
              I assume the Philip Colman who died in 1840 aged 78 wont be him? transcribed as dying in Tunstead & Happing
              Fraid not, Val, he was the son of another Philip and wife Mary bp Horning 1761and buried Horning.

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

              Comment


                #8
                well you should give yourself a pat on the back for what you have got, it cannot have been easy.


                Val

                Comment


                  #9
                  Did have a browse through the newspapers - but I guess you have already done this. couple of mentions of the names. First one was a long case report about William Self - I am guessing not your man anyway?

                  Norfolk News 29 July 1848 Philip Colman.JPG
                  Norwich Mercury 25 March 1826 Stephen Colman.JPG
                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Do you have any idea of Ann's year of birth? The Kangaroo was sailing back to England so she may well have returned to Norfolk, and even to Norwich if her daughters married there. There are a few possible burials, including one in 1826 (aged 46) which had an inquiry at New Catton in the parish of St Clement and decided she died by 'visitation of god, and not otherwise as was generally reported'.

                    The journey back to England looks like it was an eventful one: http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/jeffreys-charles-2273

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by teasie View Post
                      Do you have any idea of Ann's year of birth? The Kangaroo was sailing back to England so she may well have returned to Norfolk, and even to Norwich if her daughters married there. There are a few possible burials, including one in 1826 (aged 46) which had an inquiry at New Catton in the parish of St Clement and decided she died by 'visitation of god, and not otherwise as was generally reported'.

                      The journey back to England looks like it was an eventful one: http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/jeffreys-charles-2273
                      Thanks for looking, teasie. No I don't have a year of birth for Ann or know anything about her parents or possible siblings - haven't found a bp and obviously she was well before census returns. I saw that death in Norwich, but I couldn't find any way of pinpointing that she was the lady in question - Colman is a very common name in Norfolk - the rich ones that started the mustard shop and then my lot, the workers.
                      Yes, she did have an "interesting" journey back to England - seems like wherever she went there was drama! Not sure whether or not someone in England would have had to help pay her passage back?? Her daughters married in Norwich in 1826 and 1827 - not yet sure of any link with Norwich, although there may have been an unmarried Colman aunt working there. (Will have to go back to my notes on that one.)
                      Thanks for your comments and pointers.
                      Jay
                      Janet in Yorkshire



                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                        Did have a browse through the newspapers - but I guess you have already done this. couple of mentions of the names. First one was a long case report about William Self - I am guessing not your man anyway?

                        Norfolk News 29 July 1848 Philip Colman.JPG
                        Norwich Mercury 25 March 1826 Stephen Colman.JPG
                        Carolyn thanks for looking.I think that article was probably about one of the other Philip Colmans - Philip, Stephen and Jonathan were very commonly used forenames in this extended family and as each Colman couple had a large family including these names,, they take a bit of tracking.The tenant in the sale notice would have been my ancestor Stephen Colman, I think, or possibly his eldest son, another Stephen, who married and also lived in Trunch, nearby to his father. Thank you for your contribution.

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                          well you should give yourself a pat on the back for what you have got, it cannot have been easy.
                          Thanks Val Some days I feel I need to go and lie down in a darkened room as my "dead folk" give me a headache!

                          Jay
                          Janet in Yorkshire



                          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                          Comment


                            #14
                            There is a baptism in Norwich 12 Dec 1779 Ann d/o James & Mary Lever/Levers.

                            James Lever married Mary Larter 18 Nov 1776, Norwich

                            There appears to have been one child born to Ann's marriage with Edward - Rebecca Larter Thirsby, born 13 Dec 1800 & baptised privately 14 Dec 1800 at Worstead. Ann's maiden name is recorded on the baptism as Lavis, but I've checked and the only marriage of anyone with a similar surname to an Edward Thirsby or similar is the marriage of Edward Thoresby & Ann Lever in 1799.

                            The burial of Ann Coleman at Norwich on 29 Dec 1826, aged 46, would tie in well with the 1779 baptism of Ann Lever/s.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Oooh teasie, thank you! That all sounds very feasible and would tie in with the city of Norwich and also with that 1826 death. I have a feeling that the surname "Larter" rings a bell for some reason, possibly with a marriage into one of the Trunch families I'm connected with. (The William Self in Caroline's post #12 is connected through a marriage with one of my other Trunch lines - so much intermarriage within some of these villages that they take some teasing out.)
                              I will investigate the Levers/Larter angle - thanks again for your help.

                              Jay
                              Janet in Yorkshire



                              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Good find Teasie.

                                Vera

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  There's a bit in the paper about Ann Colman 1826

                                  Norfolk Chronicle 30 December 1826



                                  Attached Files
                                  Elaine

                                  Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                  http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                  http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Elaine View Post
                                    There's a bit in the paper about Ann Colman 1826

                                    Norfolk Chronicle 30 December 1826


                                    Yes, that's the one I referred to at post #10. It reads like there was some gossip surrounding her, doesnt it?

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by teasie View Post

                                      Yes, that's the one I referred to at post #10. It reads like there was some gossip surrounding her, doesnt it?
                                      My thoughts too, ladies If it is Philip's Ann, it seems as if everything she did turned into a drama

                                      Jay
                                      Janet in Yorkshire



                                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Sorry Jay, had looked at the link on that post and missed the rest!
                                        Was looking at that link as I had been searching for the Kangaroo last night for hints and had come across the governor's diary

                                        https://www.mq.edu.au/macquarie-arch...1817april.html

                                        I didn't know some came home
                                        Elaine

                                        Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                        http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                        http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                        Comment

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