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    WW1 record help

    I am trying to locate any military records for my friends grandfather, and I am not sure if they just are not there or I can't find them

    he is Frederick James Moore b1896 born in Wootton and parents are Frederick and Charlotte Moore he died in 1972
    I have found him in census 1901 and 1911 and 1939 (I suppose the 1901 and 1911 could be wrong) but 1939 is def right.
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...1-0503/8546158
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...47_03/44211974
    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...87/edit/record

    Wootton is only small so thought he would be easy enough to spot - and found this

    Name: Frederick James Moore
    Birth Place: Wootton, Beds
    Residence: Wootton
    Death Date: 16 Jun 1915
    Death Place: France and Flanders
    Enlistment Place: Bedford
    Rank: L Corporal
    Regiment: Bedfordshire Regiment
    Battalion: 2nd Battalion
    Regimental Number: 9597
    Type of Casualty: Killed in action
    Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

    But this is def not him as he was very much alive enough for my friend to have seen him! Is it possible that this transcript is wrong? I am not sure where/what the original document is, does seem to be death records. so i can only assume that there was more than one in Wootton.

    I will have to ask her if she knows Wootton to be correct or maybe the relative that told her has researched incorrectly.
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    #2
    The Frederick James Moore who died in 1915 was the son of William Moore & Fanny Hutchin(g)s and was born 1891. Fanny is named as his sole legatee in the Soldiers Effects record, and his death was also in the paper.

    Does your friend know for certain that her grandfather served in WW1?

    Comment


      #3
      There is an article in the Bedfordshire Times and Independent 16 October 1914 listing Wootton all men serving at that time. There is only one F Moore and he was in the Bedfordshire regiment and is probably the man who died as his medal card shows he first entered a theatre of war on 6 Oct 1914.

      However, as 'your' man is in both census as James, he could possibly be the James Moore who was listed as in the Territorial Army (RE's).

      Unfortunately there are few James Moore's who served in the Royal Engineers, but as men from the territorials tended to have a 4 digit number until they were renumbered in 1917, you might be able to narrow it down to a manageable number and then start eliminating.

      Comment


        #4
        https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/1841

        Seems he's recorded on the Wootton war memorial with the comment "not lost," but there is no information about his service.
        Does your friend know if he was awarded any medals? If he was, his service number would be inscribed on the rim and could help with searching surviving record data sets.

        ETA - silly me - I think the "not lost" may refer to the memorial itself??

        On the site in the above link it says

        First World War (1914-1918)
        Total names on memorial: 43
        Served and returned: 0
        Died: 43

        War memorials are very interesting because there was no set format and it was up to those raising the money as to the criteria used for adding names. I've researched the war memorial in our village and only names of the men who lost their lives were inscribed and not all of those were natives of the village.Additionally, in the church is a much longer roll of honour commemorating all who served, with those who died denoted by a star.
        I came across records for other men who were natives of the village, but who had moved away and so are not commemorated on our memorial - similarly some of our war dead are commemorated on a second memorial, and one chap is commemorated on 3! (In our village where his mother and grand-parents still lived, in the next village where he had worked on the country estate before moving away, and then on the memorial in the village in the Lake District where he had lived and worked before going off to war and where his widow resided.

        Jay
        Janet in Yorkshire



        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you both.

          I will ask my friend what she knows, she 'knows' some things as he sister has done research some time ago, so this could not be correct. There is confusion with the name (on his part) as I can see him on the reg of elector as Frederick James Moore in Houghton Conquest - which is correct record.

          Whilst falling asleep I did think I should follow through the chap I had found with his service number - which Teasie has done (thank you). So in some respect even more confusing as that chap isn't easily found on the census, as I hadn't come across him in a search.

          I found the Times & Citizen article too.

          Interesting about the war memorials.

          I will have to go through all the James Moore.
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


            #6
            a bit more info, he was always known as Jim, and he was in the army with horses. Assume Bedfordshire reg, but was definitely some kind of keeper of horses.

            I note that he is interchanging the names on the reg of electors, in the early days he is using James Frederick
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


              #7
              The chap in census had a father named Frederick, so junior was probably called James (Jim) to distinguish between them.

              If he worked with horses, he could have been with the ASC (logistics involving transport) or RHA . My elderly neighbour from childhood (a former farm lad/carter) served as a driver in the RHA, pulling the big guns around in the Dardanelles and then India. I'm assuming Jim had probably worked on the land and so had much needed horseman and driving skills??

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

              Comment


                #8
                There was a Frederick J Moore No. 31160 in the Bedfordshire Yeomanry. The medal award roll says he was previously in the Bedfordshire Yeomanry Lancers, which was a cavalry division and originally a territorial force.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedfordshire_Yeomanry

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                  The chap in census had a father named Frederick, so junior was probably called James (Jim) to distinguish between them.

                  If he worked with horses, he could have been with the ASC (logistics involving transport) or RHA . My elderly neighbour from childhood (a former farm lad/carter) served as a driver in the RHA, pulling the big guns around in the Dardanelles and then India. I'm assuming Jim had probably worked on the land and so had much needed horseman and driving skills??

                  Jay
                  yes he ploughed with horses, and was doing it after the war. I will have to ask if she know roughly what he was doing with horses.

                  It does always amuse me that all these families have the same names, at a family gathering it must have always been confusing

                  Originally posted by teasie View Post
                  There was a Frederick J Moore No. 31160 in the Bedfordshire Yeomanry. The medal award roll says he was previously in the Bedfordshire Yeomanry Lancers, which was a cavalry division and originally a territorial force.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedfordshire_Yeomanry
                  That looks promising - is there a way to see any of his records? will have a search

                  there was a training camp at Ampthill park and she was wondering if he trained there, that was all to do with the Duke of Bedford. The yeomanry were elsewhere I can see.
                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                    #10
                    FJM 31160 was a private and was awarded the British War and Victory medals..

                    ETA-
                    You might care to browse here - it's probably the only database that lists all participants in WW1.

                    https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm....r/type%3Dagent

                    Sadly no one contributed anything for these Fredrick James Moores. It could have been a wonderful project, but unfortunately many people thought it was a database already set up for them to go to and find out about their WW1 soldiers. In actual fact it was an attempt to get as many people as possible to offer various categories of information in order to build up profiles for all who served in WW1.

                    I'm afraid I only contributed bits as I was busy with my own project (80 men, which took up 5 years of my life) and fully intended to go back and add much more, but by that time the site had CLOSED and nothing more could be added. The following link isto a profile that I added a few facts to to, just to show you what an amazing resource it COULD have been, if only it had had more publicity about its aims and if more people had been persuaded to contribute to building up a fitting personal story for each man. Such a shame it fizzled out before it really got going.

                    https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm....08479#remember

                    Jay
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                    Comment


                      #11
                      from memory I saw an unusual Rgt re horses. Sure it was Irish so I disregarded it. Maybe didn't need an Irish connection just experience with horses

                      Vera

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have found his medal card, but no way of knowing it is actually him.

                        i have also just found a Jim Moore too, and can’t find address details for him either.

                        i will have a look through on the link, and will see if I can see an Irish one too.

                        Seems like Moore is popular in these parts, sir Tom Moore might be her relative,

                        she also has Sarah chapman matchgirl strike leader in her tree
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Oh dear Jim Moore is also a possible as far as I can see
                          http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ils/r/D4117791

                          also on Ancestry
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Sadly Carolyn only around thirty percent of WW1 soldiers records survived because of damage caused by bombing in WW2. However their medal cards are all intact and you could get a match from them. I think that Ancestry has the index these days.
                            Whoever said Seek and Ye shall find was not a genealogist.

                            David

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by grumpy View Post
                              Sadly Carolyn only around thirty percent of WW1 soldiers records survived because of damage caused by bombing in WW2. However their medal cards are all intact and you could get a match from them. I think that Ancestry has the index these days.
                              I had warned her, wasn't sure of exact percentage, I have found medal cards for Jim jones and also the one that Teasie found - William James. So I have no way of knowing which one is hers they are both in Beds Yeomanry, so at this stage all I can do is assume one is right. Have hunted in the papers in the hope of a mention, nothing located. My friend said he was always known as Jim, but that may have only come later in life.
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Did you manage to ask your friend if she knew anything about him having been awarded medals, and if so, who would be likely to have them? I can't think of any other way of pinpointing him without access to his army number on some form of paperwork or on medals.
                                Jay
                                Janet in Yorkshire



                                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  yes, she had no idea, she was going to ask her sister.
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Thank you Carolyn.What was the name of Jim's wife, your friend's grandmother? Just wondering if that could help us to eliminate some of the possible candidates on online trees/records etc. Forename would do!

                                    ETA - 21 trees on Ancestry, but not one of them mentions war service. Wonder if that indicates no surviving military records or that the treeholders have no idea that he served in WW1???? Wife's name is on the trees, so that answers that question!

                                    Jay
                                    Janet in Yorkshire



                                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Thank you Jay, here is some of the info I have:
                                      I have made her tree private as not sure what she wanted to do

                                      He is Frederick James Moore 1896 M 1924 to Annie Mayes so assume he was still at home with parents during ww1 - although not followed them through to death so perhaps I should.

                                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...-0797/59796706

                                      Here are a few links on Ancestry
                                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...09/edit/record

                                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...54/edit/record

                                      he is from a big family the youngest of them
                                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...33/edit/record

                                      Lots of them stayed in Bedford/Wootton area - not tracked them all.

                                      Living in Wootton 1911 and born in Wootton parents Frederick and Charlotte (Sell). mother from cambs, but assume he must have stayed in the area, as he was living in Millbrook 1933, my friends mother was born in this residence

                                      https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...26&usePUB=true

                                      have tried to find an earlier residence for him, plan to search later today.
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment

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