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DNA Breakthrough for the non-believers

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    DNA Breakthrough for the non-believers

    I know this should possibly be in the DNA section, but I feel it equally belongs here as well.

    For those that are anti DNA or can't see any value in what it can bring, let me tell you about my success over the weekend.

    Within the first year or two of my research I quickly established that my great grandmother had an unknown Father, nothing unusual, it was fairly common back then. Of my 16 great great grandparents, this was the only one 'missing' from my tree, I had 15 out of 16.

    Over the last 20 years, I have kept coming back to this, but with not really a lot to go on.

    A couple of years ago I did an Ancestry DNA test, learnt fast what to do, how to collect matches, but again paid no real attention to my missing great grandfather. As my knowledge improved, I was able to start grouping matches into paternal and paternal. Then I had a lightbulb moment, what if one of these groups contained the missing great grandfather.

    So over a number of weeks and with the help of some wonderful DNA contacts and a new Canadian Cousin we were able to piece it all together. The final piece went into the puzzle yesterday and Ancestry kindly confirmed the match, when I added him to my tree, by adding 4 new DNA matches.

    So if you are a doubter as to what DNA can bring to the table, it can prove or disprove a theory and can open doors that a paper trail could NEVER open.

    Only a Genealogist can feel the excitement that I felt this weekend. Its taken 20 years, some dogged determination, a great deal of luck as well, but I managed to find my first ever needle in a haystack!!!
    My Family History Blog Site:

    https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

    #2
    I reckon it can stay here and maybe your story will spur other people on to have a go!! And getting confirmation on Father's Day seemed so special too.

    More DNA stuff here - https://www.familytreeforum.com/foru...e/dna-research
    Caroline
    Caroline's Family History Pages
    Do not do to others what angers you if done to you by others. Socrates

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Caroline. I know some people are sceptical and wary of what secrets can be uncovered, but secrets can be found with written documents just as easily as they can with DNA. I look at it that its just another tool in your DNA Armoury.
      My Family History Blog Site:

      https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

      Comment


        #4
        Well done Paul. How exciting for you! I was a DNA doubtful until OH did a test to help out another member of the One Name society we belong to. So far the results have not solved that particular problem but there have been breakthroughs in other areas, mainly providing proof of a number of unproven theories.
        I soon decided to have a test too and the same super results have kept me happily working through them during lockdown and adding to parts of my own tree which I had left hanging because they were difficult to prove.

        One thing that has intrigued me is (obviously!) that the DNA is spread through all branches and working through the results has surprised me by adding large chunks to female lines which I had neglected. Please be assured that I don't add people willy nilly to the tree! I take the clue and rework it on paper and only then add the matches to my tree.

        Anne

        Comment


          #5
          I took the plunge
          Kat
          My avatar is my Great Grandmother, Cassandra Elizabeth Palmer 1861 to 1940

          Comment


            #6
            I have a similar story. I recently discovered who my biological great grandfather was with the help of some distant matches. A lot of my matches kept cropping up with a surname in common but had no meaning whatsoever to me. One of them was 140 cm so turns out she is a 2nd cousin. we share the same great grandfather but not great grandmother as my grandmother was born illegitimate....

            Comment


              #7
              Paulc, have you not seen the WATO tool before - What Are The Odds. It’s at DNA Painter website and helps you with theories on how someone is related to someone. It has recently had a beta upgrade that allows you to add a gedcom which helps the tool with its analyses. It also now has a button which lets you ask the tool to add in “theories” in case there’s a possible relationship that you have not thought of.
              I watched a video demonstration of the tool by its inventor Jonny Perl (there were two others involved in the invention). I think the demo is still up for free viewing. I didn’t find Jonny that good a speaker tbh but I got the gist and stuck with it till the end where he demonstrated the new beta features.
              I couldn’t see a separate link to the video but here’s a really good article by the dna geek about it which I reckon is better but it does have a link to the video (and other things) at the end.
              https://thednageek.com/a-major-updat...-are-the-odds/

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Anne in Carlisle View Post
                Well done Paul. How exciting for you! I was a DNA doubtful until OH did a test to help out another member of the One Name society we belong to. So far the results have not solved that particular problem but there have been breakthroughs in other areas, mainly providing proof of a number of unproven theories.
                I soon decided to have a test too and the same super results have kept me happily working through them during lockdown and adding to parts of my own tree which I had left hanging because they were difficult to prove.

                One thing that has intrigued me is (obviously!) that the DNA is spread through all branches and working through the results has surprised me by adding large chunks to female lines which I had neglected. Please be assured that I don't add people willy nilly to the tree! I take the clue and rework it on paper and only then add the matches to my tree.

                Anne
                Thanks Anne, it does help prove and disprove paper theories which I love. Like you I found some lines full of matches, I wonder if thats in that lines DNA? Some lines were very sparse, again maybe they weren't a branch that cared much for family!!

                I look at it this way, why not use it? Give me a reason not try try it?
                My Family History Blog Site:

                https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by gloryer View Post
                  I have a similar story. I recently discovered who my biological great grandfather was with the help of some distant matches. A lot of my matches kept cropping up with a surname in common but had no meaning whatsoever to me. One of them was 140 cm so turns out she is a 2nd cousin. we share the same great grandfather but not great grandmother as my grandmother was born illegitimate....
                  Another wonderful result, with a bit of hard work you can even work out a lot smaller matches than that
                  My Family History Blog Site:

                  https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                    Paulc, have you not seen the WATO tool before - What Are The Odds. It’s at DNA Painter website and helps you with theories on how someone is related to someone. It has recently had a beta upgrade that allows you to add a gedcom which helps the tool with its analyses. It also now has a button which lets you ask the tool to add in “theories” in case there’s a possible relationship that you have not thought of.
                    I watched a video demonstration of the tool by its inventor Jonny Perl (there were two others involved in the invention). I think the demo is still up for free viewing. I didn’t find Jonny that good a speaker tbh but I got the gist and stuck with it till the end where he demonstrated the new beta features.
                    I couldn’t see a separate link to the video but here’s a really good article by the dna geek about it which I reckon is better but it does have a link to the video (and other things) at the end.
                    https://thednageek.com/a-major-updat...-are-the-odds/
                    Thanks, I have used DNA painter before and have finally kind of got to grips with it, like everything else the more you use it the easier it gets. I did try the WATO tool, but got even more confused then!! But I might add that I had a real DNA surprise a lot closer to me a year or so ago and the WATO prediction was less than 1% chance for this match. I had to enlist the help of a DNA professional in the end to untangle it all and they said that my match was the lowest ever recorded case for this match anywhere in the world and has been the subject of presentations!! So don't rule out any possibility, anythings possible
                    My Family History Blog Site:

                    https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Paulc View Post

                      Thanks, I have used DNA painter before and have finally kind of got to grips with it, like everything else the more you use it the easier it gets. I did try the WATO tool, but got even more confused then!! But I might add that I had a real DNA surprise a lot closer to me a year or so ago and the WATO prediction was less than 1% chance for this match. I had to enlist the help of a DNA professional in the end to untangle it all and they said that my match was the lowest ever recorded case for this match anywhere in the world and has been the subject of presentations!! So don't rule out any possibility, anythings possible
                      Fame!!! I remember Jonny saying that the upper and lower figures on the relationship table as found on Blaine Bettinger’s site have been updated to include new data. Your example will be included in that.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I think with DNA its can only grow and get bigger with time, the good thing is that we are in almost at the beginning, in theory our matches will only go up from this point!
                        My Family History Blog Site:

                        https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

                        Comment


                          #13
                          DNA proved my grandmother had an affair with her married boss, after the affair ended he married her sister.

                          so far, it hasn't helped with historical cases of illegitimacy. Fingers crossed.

                          there is a family in sydney, family rumour said they were descended from the kings of prussia. They were even on "who do you think you are". DNA turns out they were correct. One of my family rumours is descent from the dukes of buccleugh. Would be nice to know about that one!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            be a good story to tell the kids if it turns out to be true Kyle!
                            My Family History Blog Site:

                            https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I have four unknown great great greatgrandparents, 3 due to illegitimacy, the fourth due to a lack of paper records. I am 98% positive I have identified one, through traditional research but would like that complete confirmation.

                              My brother had a dna test. Five matches. Three matches led to the same researcher with whom we already had contact. One match led to relative who knew nothing, so we handed out information and got nothing back - I don't grudge that but didn't need to pay for a dna test in order to do it. The fifth match led to a tree with about 20,000 people on it, five year old grandfathers, hundred year old mothers, you know the sort of thing. I felt no urge to sort it out.

                              My subjective experience is that it only works between serious researchers with accurate trees.

                              OC

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Totally agree OC, some people can get lucky whereas others not so lucky. Over time as more and more people test I am sure that the matches will increase and hopefully improve.

                                Did you upload your raw data elsewhere? They always say to fish in as many DNA ponds as possible.
                                My Family History Blog Site:

                                https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Just written the story up quickly today.

                                  https://chiddicksfamilytree.com/2020...in-a-haystack/


                                  My Family History Blog Site:

                                  https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I posted several years ago that I had successfully confirmed my g'g'grandfather's suspected parents using genetic genealogy - and at the same time confirmed his suspected grandparents. Common surname, births pre-1837. Since then I've had additional confirmations of these relationships thru other matches.

                                    BTW - I was fortunate in that I was able to test my parents, keeping another generation's DNA intact.

                                    "Robust family trees" are very necessary to make it work, especially the further back in time you go.

                                    My father's Cornish ancestors presented difficulties - common surnames and first names and intermarrying. Multiple Ancestry trees named a Lethlean ancestor, but it didn't look to me that the PR transcriptions could really be conclusive. Then he had a strong Lethlean match.

                                    Downside? for me, concerns about privacy and such. Others have also found that their biological parentage was not what they thought it was. For some, that's pretty devastating.

                                    Go in with your eyes wide open.
                                    ------------------------------------------------------
                                    My Families
                                    London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I am supposed to descend from an illegitimate child of James V of Scotland. I have never found anything to prove it but I do have some matches with other people that also claim to be a relation of his...........I supposed thats all just a bit of fun but who knows if somebody may come up with a definite answer in the future. Exhume his body perhaps. lol

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                        I have four unknown great great greatgrandparents, 3 due to illegitimacy, the fourth due to a lack of paper records. I am 98% positive I have identified one, through traditional research but would like that complete confirmation.

                                        My brother had a dna test. Five matches. Three matches led to the same researcher with whom we already had contact. One match led to relative who knew nothing, so we handed out information and got nothing back - I don't grudge that but didn't need to pay for a dna test in order to do it. The fifth match led to a tree with about 20,000 people on it, five year old grandfathers, hundred year old mothers, you know the sort of thing. I felt no urge to sort it out.

                                        My subjective experience is that it only works between serious researchers with accurate trees.

                                        OC
                                        OC, I think things may have changed over the last few years. I have over 30,000 matches on Ancestry. Obviously most of those are at a very low level but still, even some of those can be matched. I rarely contact anyone and they only need a minuscule tree to set me off on a hunt! I have successfully attached over 150 matches to my tree with their relevant ancestors, many along lines I had neglected and some proving previously doubtful links.

                                        I have 350 closer matches and you can sort them out by seeing what mutual matches you have. And I haven't even started on the fancy DNA painting that other's mention.
                                        Anne

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