Will Of Patience Ann Smith 320 Mile End Rd Shadwell? London

[cbcarolyn]

Hi again, I don't know if this will prove very helpful but I have noted record/records at the UK Archives via Discovery. Might be a coincidence but might not, Thomas Cramp of 16 St Anne court Wardour st Soho Middlesex, Butcher and Patience Ann Smith

of Rathbone Place Middlesex Widow. Plaintiffs George Gramp, Elizabeth Cramp, Thomas Cramp and Patience Ann Smith, defendants Edward Bryant of Somerset Gent.

looks interesting, could mean that she was widdowed by then too.

[cadilliac]

Well, Thank You all so much. I have noted a Patience Ann Symons born 30 April 1780 same area as marriage of Patience Ann Symonds to John Smith a baker in 1809.

[cbcarolyn]

Well, Thank You all so much. I have noted a Patience Ann Symons born 30 April 1780 same area as marriage of Patience Ann Symonds to John Smith a baker in 1809.

Would be interesting to know why she did have so much money, and the relationship link with nephew Abraham.

Wonder when John died, and where they are in 1841 and 1851 census?

[cadilliac]

Yes, same, only one way and that is keep on looking.

[Elaine]

Just did a quick search for Edward Bryant and Cramp and...solicitor Jenkinson...another to follow

Morning Advertiser 22 November 1854

[Elaine]

Possibly Whitechapel death 1854 John Cramp age 63 from GRO

Morning Advertiser 26 December 1855

[Elaine]

I knew I had come across the surname Cramp but thought someone had mentioned here but looked at the thread and couldn't see this

John Symmons married Rebecca Cramp 1779 St Anne, Soho

Witnesses Solomon and Ann Ball I think

[cbcarolyn]

I knew I had come across the surname Cramp but thought someone had mentioned here but looked at the thread and couldn't see this

John Symmons married Rebecca Cramp 1779 St Anne, Soho

Witnesses Solomon and Ann Ball I think

Are you thinking these are Patience parents?

Interesting

[Elaine]

I think it's worth a look, checked a few marriages in case any of the family are witnesses but no luck.

[cbcarolyn]

trying to find where they were in early years, most of the baptisms do not have an address, but this one does:

I think it says Samuel Street.

Screenshot 2020-06-16 at 22.26.25.png

St Georges in the East - wikipedia says the area was known as Wapping Stepney also Shadwell

So still in same area.

[cbcarolyn]

Just found this - I assume this is all the children and grandchildren, Wiiliam there in 1868

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...650?pid=106597

Screenshot 2020-06-16 at 22.46.49.png

transcribed as
Name: Catriona Ann Smith
Age: 86
Birth Date: abt 1780
Burial Date: 1866
Burial Place: London, England
Reference Number: CTHC/01/112,113

(Nora have added to my google drive too)

[norahs]

Thanks so much Carolyn for adding to the Google drive. What a great find, did you find them on Ancestry?

[cbcarolyn]

Thanks so much Carolyn for adding to the Google drive. What a great find, did you find them on Ancestry?

Link is in the post

[norahs]

Yes, now I see it. I don't sub to Ancestry only FMP so can't access through the link.

[cbcarolyn]

Transcription:

name, year of death , and age (I think)
Samuel Stephens 1865 18
Eliza Ann Cronin 1877 20
John Henry Oaten 1884 44
Eliza Scully 1888 69
Henry Smith 1889 54
Phoebe Day 1895 47
Eliza Ann Lilley ?? 1899 62
Patience Ann Smith 1866 86
William Smith 1868 56

These are all younger than her children, so assume that they all pre deceased her.

Looks like £4 and 4 shillings

[norahs]

Would William Smith (1868 death) have mmn mentioned on the death cert?? I have Scottish death records with the mmn down along with the fathers name , so are the English death certs for this time period similar or not?

[cbcarolyn]

Would William Smith (1868 death) have mmn mentioned on the death cert?? I have Scottish death records with the mmn down along with the fathers name , so are the English death certs for this time period similar or not?

no sadly not

[cadilliac]

Found death of William Smith . Died 22 Feb 1868. On Ancestry. Could be the one i am looking for. Address was Mile End. Interesting collection of people in Private Grave. Bit more digging. Tower Cemetery does not seem to have record of Private Graves.. Thank You.

[cbcarolyn]

Found death of William Smith . Died 22 Feb 1868. On Ancestry. Could be the one i am looking for. Address was Mile End. Interesting collection of people in Private Grave. Bit more digging. Tower Cemetery does not seem to have record of Private Graves.. Thank You.

what record did you expect? not sure I understand.

[Jill on the A272]

City of London and Tower Hamlets Cemetery has the day book which gives by day the burials and details, in addition it has a book for private burials which list the burials in each private grave, this one starts in 1868but too late in the year unfortunately.