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    Downpatrick Northern Ireland 1842

    I am searching for any details of William James Thompson born 1842 Downpatrick Ireland. with any details of his parents, Hugh Thompson and Catherine Ward. I am having difficulty finding anything Thank you

    #2
    Pam,
    Do you have any other shreds of information, no matter how small - eg what religion were they? occupations? any siblings? What is your source for parents' names, especially mother's maiden name?
    There are loads of Hugh and James Thompsons on Ros Davies's Co Down website but none that are obviously/definitively yours...
    Where have you already looked?
    Christine
    Researching:
    HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for your reply. I have just obtained the marriage certificate for William James Thompson and Catherine Carr. They were married in 1876 in Victoria Australia. I ordered this as I needed to know the names of Williams Parents to enable me to continue with my family tree research. I would welcome someone else taking a look at the marriage certificate as there was some difficulty in reading his Fathers name. A couple of experts in Australia where I ordered the certificate both said the name was Hugh and on first looking at it I also thought it was Hugh. I believe they were Roman Catholic. Also there is a later generation in the family named William Hugh Thompson. His Fathers occupation is given as Builder. I am not sure when William James Thompson travelled to Australia or where from. I did find a William Thompson born 1842 County Down Ireland the right age in the records for Convicts. Arrival year in Australia 1870 Vessel arrived in Ravens Craig. Date of admission 1875 Gaol. Deniliquin New South Wales. I have searched on Ancestry and Find My Past as they are my main subscription sites. I do not know if there are any siblings. I would welcome any help with this as I have been searching for quite some time. I can send an email attachment if that is possible showing the marriage certificate. Thank you Pam

      Comment


        #4
        Are you absolutely sure the William James Thompson who marries in 1876 is definitely your man? I did some digging last night and found a few bits and pieces which sort of hang together with the limited information you gave in post 1 and also led me to Australia but they led me to a totally different William James Thompson. It's getting a bit late to post details, plus it's all totally redundant anyway if the 1876 marriage is definitely your man. If you're not certain about 1876 WJT, I'll post details of the trail I followed tomorrow - my bed is calling!

        Christine
        Researching:
        HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Christine . Thanks for this. Yes we have a lot of the family tree for Thompson Ellis .families. His wife was Mary Ann Ellis born 1 august 1854 in Liverpool she died in Australia in 1883 and her Parents were Henry Ellis and Catherine Carr. The Daughter of William Thompson and Mary Ann Ellis was Catherine Alice Thompson born in Australia in 1878 and died in 1964 Australia. Her Mother Mary Ann died when her children were young and were brought up by other family members. Catherine Alice Thompson 1878-1964 married Arthur Forster born 1877 Dersingham Norfolk and died in 1959 in Essendon Victoria Australia. I have not been able to confirm when William James Thompson died.? I would welcome any other information that you may have as I know it is important to look at all facts. I have really struggled with the William James Thompson and I have been researching for many years. Thank you and Kind Regards Pam

          Comment


            #6
            Your original post made it sound like you knew absolutely nothing about WJT other than his approximate YOB and place of birth. It would have been helpful if you had posted the info you had about wife and children in your original post.

            As you are sure the 1876 marriage is yours, please could you upload a copy of the marriage cert as an attachment so we can decipher the handwriting and see all the relevant information. Thanks.

            Do you mean that WJTs father was a builder? Or that the father of the later generation William Hugh Thompson was a builder? And what relation is this William Hugh Thompson to William James Thompson?

            Christine
            Researching:
            HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

            Comment


              #7
              William James Thompson's Father was a Builder. William Hugh Thompson was the Son of William James Thompson and Mary Ann Ellis born in 1881 in Australia. After his Mother died he was brought up by the Mahncke family and took the name William Hugh Mahncke. I apologise for not giving more to begin with but was trying to concentrate on the Downpatrick Ireland Birth GREE.PM M1876 679.pdf . I hope I have attached the marriage certificate for you correctly. I do appreciate the help you are giving with this that will hopefully allow me to continue with my research. Many thanks Pam

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for uploading the marriage details - the fact that his father was a builder confirms that I may have been on the right track after all regarding Hugh Thompson.
                Hugh was my starting point when I started looking into this the other night after your first post. I began with looking for possible wills - nothing on PRONI but found this on NAI.
                A Hugh Thompson, builder, from Downpatrick dies in Australia in 1859, leaving his widow Catherine who was still in Downpatrick as one of his legatees and executrix.
                http://www.willcalendars.nationalarc...4884_00167.pdf
                It's a slightly odd one, as it mentions letters of administration with will annexed. Unfortunately as probate was granted at the Principal Registry in Dublin, I doubt the original will has survived, but it's still worth checking...

                I then looked for the death of this Hugh Thompson in Australia - found this inquest report which tallies with the date of death and other details given in the will calendar. He dies when he is about to set sail back home, having been in Australia for about 18 months according to the 3rd witness
                Hope the link works but it might just take you to a search page. He is also on the passenger list for the Ellen Stewart as he had already boarded ship, but obviously he didn't travel! I wonder where they buried him?
                http://access.prov.vic.gov.au/public...1-DocumentData

                If the link to the inquest report above doesn't work, it's also on ancestry if you search for Hugh Thompson in the Victoria, Australia, Coroner Inquest Deposition Files, 1840-1925
                Hugh Thompson
                Male
                Australia
                25 Feb 1859
                Williamstown
                It's a pity that the 3rd witness doesn't give a name to the son who was a barman at the Old Bush Inn in Geelong. (With no other info to go on, I looked for a William James Thompson in Geelong and found one who marries a Phipps in 1871 and dies in 1929 in Queenscliffe - but that's all by-the-by as it turns out he is not your WJT.) Some of the writing is a bit tricky but I'm sure others will help you out with whatever bits you can't decipher. It could be worth getting this Hugh's death certificate, especially if Australian death certs give spouse's maiden name (assuming the informant knew it.)

                Christine
                Sent from my iPad
                Last edited by Karamazov; 13-06-20, 16:20. Reason: Correcting iPad knows better autocorrections!
                Researching:
                HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi Christine. This is excellent information and I really appreciate the work you have put in. I will order the death certificate as it may give his age at death to give some idea what year he was born. Do you think I would be able to find a marriage For Hugh Thompson to Catherine Ward ? That would also give his age and maybe even take me back to another generation with details of her family as well. I still haven't found any details of when William James Thompson left Ireland to go to Australia apart from the Convicts one I mentioned in my earlier post.? I wonder why Hugh Thompson went to Australia on his own maybe it was work related. Many thanks again Pam

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by pamgreen View Post
                    Hi Christine. This is excellent information and I really appreciate the work you have put in. I will order the death certificate as it may give his age at death to give some idea what year he was born. Do you think I would be able to find a marriage For Hugh Thompson to Catherine Ward ? That would also give his age and maybe even take me back to another generation with details of her family as well. I still haven't found any details of when William James Thompson left Ireland to go to Australia apart from the Convicts one I mentioned in my earlier post.? I wonder why Hugh Thompson went to Australia on his own maybe it was work related. Many thanks again Pam
                    The inquest gives his age as about 45. I would guess that Hugh and the unnamed son (who is possibly WJT) travelled to Oz together, circa 1857 as per 3rd witness saying Hugh had been in Oz about 18 months. As this was around the time of the Australian goldrush, perhaps they thought there would be opportunities for builders. It was often the people who supplied goods and services to miners who made the more lasting fortunes. The 3rd witness mentions him having property/houses, although not clear whether he means in Oz or Ireland. Perhaps he was about to return home because he had made a success in Oz, or it could be because of the 5 months consumption-like illness mentioned by witness 3. Who knows?

                    Christine
                    Researching:
                    HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hi Christine Many thanks for your latest update. I will order the Death certificate and try and find more details of where he may have been buried. I will also look at passengers list for 1857 to find Hugh Thompson travelling with his son who would have been about 15/16. I wonder if William James Thompson had any siblings back in Downpatrick Northern Ireland, as the Inquest said his wife Catherine was still in Downpatrick when Hugh died. Lots for me to keep busy. What would be the best site for Norther Ireland records to try and find his marriage to Catherine Ward. "Roots Ireland" ? I wonder if there was anything in an Ireland Newspaper about his Death in Australia in 1859.? Thank you again Pam

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Downpatrick RC records only start in 1851 so if that’s where William was born c 1842 and where his parents were married there’s probably no record of it. Death registration started in 1864. If Catherine Thompson was still alive then you might get her death certificate.

                        The only death of a married Catherine Thompson if about the right age between 1864 and 1901 in the Downpatrick registration area was this one:

                        https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....93/4672007.pdf

                        She lived in Portaferry which is about 20 miles from Downpatrick. Don’t know if it’s the right family.

                        Elwyn
                        Elwyn

                        I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Elwyn View Post
                          Downpatrick RC records only start in 1851 so if that’s where William was born c 1842 and where his parents were married there’s probably no record of it. Death registration started in 1864. If Catherine Thompson was still alive then you might get her death certificate.

                          The only death of a married Catherine Thompson if about the right age between 1864 and 1901 in the Downpatrick registration area was this one:

                          https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....93/4672007.pdf

                          She lived in Portaferry which is about 20 miles from Downpatrick. Don’t know if it’s the right family.

                          Elwyn
                          Elwyn,
                          Although Pam thinks the family may have been RC, I think they (or at least the earlier generations) were more likely Presbyterians given that the 1876 marriage cert Pam posted at #7 is for a Presbyterian marriage ceremony.

                          Christine
                          Researching:
                          HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

                            Elwyn,
                            Although Pam thinks the family may have been RC, I think they (or at least the earlier generations) were more likely Presbyterians given that the 1876 marriage cert Pam posted at #7 is for a Presbyterian marriage ceremony.

                            Christine
                            OK.

                            Options for Presbyterians in Downpatrick are the NSP church (Non Subscribing Presbyterian or Unitarian) which has records as follows:

                            Baptisms, 1834-7 and 1870-1978; marriages, 1834-43 and 1845-1936; burials, 1834-7;

                            Or Downpatrick Presbyterian:

                            Baptisms, 1827-1977; marriages, 1827-1913

                            Copies of both are held in PRONI in Belfast. Personal visit required to view them.

                            Presbyterians in Ireland don’t use the parish system and so sometimes the church a family attended was/is not the closest to where they live.
                            Elwyn

                            I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The death record in victoria should list all known family details, such as parents names, birthplace, marriage details and all children's names and ages. They also ask for burial details.

                              bear in mind the irish and scots are quite inaccurate in age on their records in australia, so he was likely older than the estimated age at death. Sometimes this is because they genuinely had no idea how old they were, other times it was to qualify for emmigration or work schemes if they were under a certain age.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Also victorian births, deaths and marriages are downloadable instantly for $20. Only pay more, $34; if you need it certified by the registrar. (that pricing is a load of crock anyway).

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by pamgreen View Post
                                  Hi Christine Many thanks for your latest update. I will order the Death certificate and try and find more details of where he may have been buried. I will also look at passengers list for 1857 to find Hugh Thompson travelling with his son who would have been about 15/16. I wonder if William James Thompson had any siblings back in Downpatrick Northern Ireland, as the Inquest said his wife Catherine was still in Downpatrick when Hugh died. Lots for me to keep busy. What would be the best site for Norther Ireland records to try and find his marriage to Catherine Ward. "Roots Ireland" ? I wonder if there was anything in an Ireland Newspaper about his Death in Australia in 1859.? Thank you again Pam
                                  Hi Pam,
                                  Did you get the 1859 death cert? If so, and you don't mind, it would be good if you could post it as an attachment, esp if it contains the wealth of info that Kyle mentions - although that's always dependent on how much the informant knows.
                                  Re possible sources for baptisms and marriages, see Elwyn's posts above.

                                  Going back to your original post - do you have the death cert for WJTs wife? Again, it might be useful if you could post it - esp for info re where they were living at the time, and what his occupation was when she died. Any idea if he remarried? Otherwise there are just too many William Thompsons in Oz to pin down a remarriage or death...

                                  Christine
                                  Researching:
                                  HOEY (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                                  Comment

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