Working out which children belong to which parent - help please?

[cbcarolyn]

Post 38 proves he is in Deptford in 1914

[tessie31082]

Hi all! There is definately something going on! My friends Grandad Edward jnr wouldn't tell his family anything about his parents just that he grew up with his grandparents after 1911. His mum's name is blank on his marriage cert. So I really don't know about the 'two' families I and you have found on the 1901 and 1911 census. Then the 1939 throws it all up in the air again when Edward is back with Lily and Frederick - aarrgghh lol!

[cbcarolyn]

did he mention anything about any siblings apart from the one on 1911? Sounds like his mother abandoned him then, aww.

On the face of it, looks like Edward moved out for a few years had 2 children and then moved back, and sent the children to be with grandparents.

[tessie31082]

did he mention anything about any siblings apart from the one on 1911? Sounds like his mother abandoned him then, aww.

On the face of it, looks like Edward moved out for a few years had 2 children and then moved back, and sent the children to be with grandparents.

Carolyn, he didn't know the brother on the 1911 census - he's also unknown. Why are there no birth records for them? My friend doesn't know who her great grandmother was as cannot find birth records to prove or disprove this Louisa lady!? I get the whole moving between 2 ladies (presumably didn't marry Louisa) then went back to wife as per 1939 but odd that there is nothing for those 2 boys unless they used different names when registering - how annoying!

[GallowayLass]

Regarding Lily and a remarriage for Edward - if he is indeed the same chap. I had found a death for Lily Sumpter the other night way beyond the date she ought to have been dead. Makes me think they split up but both marriages are in Wandsworth. I think you will need to get both marriage certs to see what is written about Edward. Either we gave 2 of them or one had a right brass neck remarrying in the same district with only a few years in between each.

[cbcarolyn]

Carolyn, he didn't know the brother on the 1911 census - he's also unknown. Why are there no birth records for them? My friend doesn't know who her great grandmother was as cannot find birth records to prove or disprove this Louisa lady!? I get the whole moving between 2 ladies (presumably didn't marry Louisa) then went back to wife as per 1939 but odd that there is nothing for those 2 boys unless they used different names when registering - how annoying!

Like you say regardless of parents you would think could find birth. Maybe the other brother died?

GL I think I may have got lost on the marriages for Edward isn’t there only one to Lily? And Louise just has the one to James wadhams?

need to reread thread!

[GallowayLass]

1907 to Louisa Durey I think it was.

[tessie31082]

1907 to Louisa Durey I think it was.

I don't think Louisa Durey is my Edward or Louisa. My Louisa's MMN is Cook and couldn't find a marriage for a Cook/Wadhams to a Durey.

[cbcarolyn]

So far I think this is Louisa Durey 1911 with Edward F Sumpter

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW55-CV8

Edward T age 2 and daughter Katherine both MMN Durey

This is Louise Durey

[tessie31082]

This is Louise Durey

This isn't the right family. George was Edward snr's Dad and Miriam his Mum.

[cbcarolyn]

This isn't the right family. George was Edward snr's Dad and Miriam his Mum.

sorry yes I know, didn’t make that clear, was for GL really.

[tessie31082]

sorry yes I know, didn’t make that clear, was for GL really.

Ah OK, thanks Carolyn

[cbcarolyn]

I see that there is a marriage of Louisa Wadhams (daughter) and violet Wadhams a witness, and I think Violet and Ethel are in various institutions for their childhood, I assume that this is them in 1911 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...15/edit/record although Violet should be 10 and not 7

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...60/edit/record

[annette.humphreys]

Having searched myself and studied all the above I think that Edward senior is indeed the man who married Lily Reid (and the son of George and Miriam) and that sometime between 1901 and 1905 the couple split up and he took up with Louisa Wadhams with whom he had 2 further children, your Edward in 1906 and Thomas ca.1908. No marriage between them (he's definitely not the Edward married to Louisa Durey) and neither of the 2 boys births appear to have been registered (as Sumpter, Wadhams or Cook). However, a Thomas Wadhams bc.1908 died Sept.1911 Southwark - there is no birth entry or census entry for a Thomas Wadhams bc.1908 that would fit this person so I'm wondering whether this is the Thomas Sumpter shown with Edward and Louisa in 1911 and would explain why your Edward had no knowledge of him. I would imagine that the couple weren't together for long after 1911 - and Edward got back with his wife Lily. What because of Louisa I have no idea - no re-marriage as either Wadhams (her legal name) or Sumpter (her assumed name for a few years), nor deaths in either names. In a case like this with no birth registered for Edward in 1906 (nor his brother Thomas), no marriage between parents, pure logic has to come into play. So, we know who his father was (son of George and Miriam) and that his mother must have been Louisa Wadhams, nee Cook.

[cbcarolyn]

Having searched myself and studied all the above I think that Edward senior is indeed the man who married Lily Reid (and the son of George and Miriam) and that sometime between 1901 and 1905 the couple split up and he took up with Louisa Wadhams with whom he had 2 further children, your Edward in 1906 and Thomas ca.1908. No marriage between them (he's definitely not the Edward married to Louisa Durey) and neither of the 2 boys births appear to have been registered (as Sumpter, Wadhams or Cook). However, a Thomas Wadhams bc.1908 died Sept.1911 Southwark - there is no birth entry or census entry for a Thomas Wadhams bc.1908 that would fit this person so I'm wondering whether this is the Thomas Sumpter shown with Edward and Louisa in 1911 and would explain why your Edward had no knowledge of him. I would imagine that the couple weren't together for long after 1911 - and Edward got back with his wife Lily. What because of Louisa I have no idea - no re-marriage as either Wadhams (her legal name) or Sumpter (her assumed name for a few years), nor deaths in either names. In a case like this with no birth registered for Edward in 1906 (nor his brother Thomas), no marriage between parents, pure logic has to come into play. So, we know who his father was (son of George and Miriam) and that his mother must have been Louisa Wadhams, nee Cook.

the death sounds very likely.

Louisa was still alive in 1914 re James army papers, so you might find a few more odd records.

He has a lot of half brothers and sisters, wonder if they ever spoke of him I would definitely want to trace all of them.

[tessie31082]

Thanks everyone for your help on this mystery! I will type up this info. for my friend to ponder

[tessie31082]

Just seen a marriage for a Louisa Wadhams to a William Wells (a William Wells was a witness on Louisa's - the daughter marriage in 1925) - off to see if I can find anything else on it!

[tessie31082]

There are Wells/Cook children in 1913 and 1919 - off to look at them for clues!

The youngest of the 2 children is living with his Mum Louisa on 1939 register in Deptford (she's widowed) giving a birth date of 1876 (I commonly find the 1939 is out by a year on DOB). Trying to trace her forward now, either another marriage or death hopefully for my friend to work on!

[cbcarolyn]

OOh good find, looks like the story hasn't ended.

[cbcarolyn]

have you seen this:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...33/edit/record