Working out which children belong to which parent - help please?

[tessie31082]

Now this is weird. There are other trees online with this family and one of them has the children of the family in Wandsworth census as half siblings of the family in your 1911 census! The father Edward Sumpter (no middle name) is given as born 1875 in Hampshire. I have found this in the version of the index that is on the same site as the trees but it does not some up on GRO site even with the two extra surname search options.

Are any of the trees there yours? None of the other public ones have a birth reference number for the two youngest boys on your census page nor are there any certs loaded into their galleries.

I tried to get back to this tree but I have lost it. Time to give up for the night I think.

Oh wow, I'll try and find it too - see what unravels!

[tessie31082]

So futher update from my friend. Her Dad, Edward b. 1906 apparently in Deptford was sent to live with Grandparents called George and Miriam Sumpter so I think I will try and find them and work forwards - I've not even had a brick wall this hard!

[cbcarolyn]

there are army records for James Wadhams, mother Louisa Wadhams, I assume these are same family. Step father maybe died and Louisa back to other name to make it easier for the record?

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...9_205569-01304

[cbcarolyn]

I have found a George and Miriam, but oddly can't find son Edward!

1881
Name: Miriam Sumpter
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: George Sumpter
Gender: Female
Where born: Tadley, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Pamber
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: Heath
Marital status: Married
Registration district: Basingstoke
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Piece: 1256
Folio: 33
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
George Sumpter 35
Miriam Sumpter 32
Charles Sumpter 7
Gherald Sumpter 5
Robert Sumpter 3
Kate Sumpter 2

1891
Name: Merriam Samples
Gender: Female
Age: 42
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1849
Spouse: George Samples

Birth Place: Tadley, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Shenfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Shenfield
Residence Place: Reading, Shenfield, Berkshire, England
Registration district: Wokingham
Sub registration district: Wokingham
Piece: 1000
Folio: 60
Household Members:
Name Age
George Samples 44
Merriam Samples 42
Kate Samples 11
Tiberius Samples 7
Ann Samples 9
Julia Samples 4
Herbert Samples 1
Joseph Norman 46

[tessie31082]

there are army records for James Wadhams, mother Louisa Wadhams, I assume these are same family. Step father maybe died and Louisa back to other name to make it easier for the record?

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...9_205569-01304

I can't see another name for her on there - will go to Ancestry and find record

[tessie31082]

I'm wondering if Gherald is Edward as no Gherald on GRO that I can see but an Edward that has the right names!

[tessie31082]

I think I have found Edward Sumpter snr's (b. 1875) death in 1945 Surrey Mid E on Freebmd so off to look for him on the 1939 register - see if that gives any clues!

[tessie31082]

The 1939 just shows up with the one married to Lily (Reid) and a child still with them Frederick. I am so confused now lol! Hints at the side for Gherald and the 1911 with Louisa. However, Louisa's 1st husband Mr Wadhams didn't die until 1902 and the Edward Sumpter/Lily Reid marriage is 1899 so can't be the same people Not sure what to do - write down all the info. and try to make sense of it that way?

[tessie31082]

Sorry for the bombardments! I wonder whether they never married? Wonder that although the boys were known as these names as on the census whether they had different 'real' names and that's why they can't be found on the GRO? I will tell my friend I can't get any further forward. Thanks for all your help so far

[cbcarolyn]

there is a Edward Sumpter with father as G Sumpter on school records dob 18 Jul 1875 school is in Hartley Wespall, so think it is likely to be him, or maybe a cousin?

[GallowayLass]

The death record that you know is him has a date of birth in March? Or am I misremembering?

[tessie31082]

The death record that you know is him has a date of birth in March? Or am I misremembering?

24th March and always told 1906 but never had a BC

[tessie31082]

there is a Edward Sumpter with father as G Sumpter on school records dob 18 Jul 1875 school is in Hartley Wespall, so think it is likely to be him, or maybe a cousin?

Edward Sumpter snr who 'married' Louisa has a Dad called George

[cbcarolyn]

Reading Observer 30 March 1923 - Edward Sumpter.JPG
Reading Observer 30 March 1923 - Edward Sumpter

I assume this is your Edward, and living in Shinfield/three Mile Cross ?

[tessie31082]

Reading Observer 30 March 1923 - Edward Sumpter.JPG
Reading Observer 30 March 1923 - Edward Sumpter

I assume this is your Edward, and living in Shinfield/three Mile Cross ?

Yes, my friend said he went to live with his grandparents George and Miriam and they live at 3 Mile Cross on one of the census

[cbcarolyn]

There seems to be this census in 1901
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...84&usePUB=true
Name: Edward Sumpter
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Lily Sumpter
Birth Place: Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Tooting Graveney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas Tooting Graveney
County/Island: London
Retration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Streatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 470
Folio: 68
Page Number: 13
Household schedule number: 87
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Sumpter 26
Lily Sumpter 21
Frederick Sumpter 1



then in 1911
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...793.1535224975
she is here with her mother and the 2 children and he brother (No Edward)
Name: Lily E Sumpter
Age in 1911: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Wimbledon, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Wandsworth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 920 Garratt Lane, Tooting S W
Marital status: Married
Estimated Marriage Year: 1899
Occupation: Scrubber Tooting
Registration district: Wandsworth
Registration District Number: 26
Sub-registration district: Streatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 80
Piece: 2365
Name Age
Elizabeth Mansell 60
Lily E Sumpter 30
Frederick Reid 28
Frederick Sumpter 11
Ernest Charles Sumpter 9
Annie Lawra Garrard 29

But in 1939
Edward, Lily and frederick
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...83/edit/record

So is this the same Edward that is on 1911 census with Louisa? And a bit of a family scandal, or this is a red herring and need another Edward Sumpter from Hampshire?

Elaine and GL both found references to this

[cbcarolyn]

Just a last find before I go. I found that there were two marriages in Wandsworth for an Edward SUMPTER one 1899 and one 1907. The 1899 bride was either Lily Elizabeth Reid or Annie Sleight. No children with the 2nd mms but two for the first. The 1907 was to Louisa Durey. That cert might show Edward to have been a widower.

SUMPTER, EDWARD FREDERICK	REID
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 812

SUMPTER, CHARLES ERNEST	REID
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 696

I was trying to work out Edward last night and just couldn't quite but am just leaving a quick note to see if it helps any

There are military notes for an Edward from Tadley whose big main info is he goes in the marines and there is a record on TNA to download

Was looking at Lily Sumpter with her mother 1911

It was a bit late when I looked but won't have a chance to look this morning, hoping its might help and I will get the chance to look later

My post refers to these above finds

[cbcarolyn]

there is the war record for robert Sumpter and he names all the family

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...793.1535224975

family.JPG

[Katarzyna]

There seems to be this census in 1901
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...84&usePUB=true
Name: Edward Sumpter
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Lily Sumpter
Birth Place: Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Tooting Graveney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas Tooting Graveney
County/Island: London
Retration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Streatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 470
Folio: 68
Page Number: 13
Household schedule number: 87
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Sumpter 26
Lily Sumpter 21
Frederick Sumpter 1



then in 1911
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...793.1535224975
she is here with her mother and the 2 children and he brother (No Edward)
Name: Lily E Sumpter
Age in 1911: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Wimbledon, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Wandsworth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 920 Garratt Lane, Tooting S W
Marital status: Married
Estimated Marriage Year: 1899
Occupation: Scrubber Tooting
Registration district: Wandsworth
Registration District Number: 26
Sub-registration district: Streatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 80
Piece: 2365
Name Age
Elizabeth Mansell 60
Lily E Sumpter 30
Frederick Reid 28
Frederick Sumpter 11
Ernest Charles Sumpter 9
Annie Lawra Garrard 29

But in 1939
Edward, Lily and frederick
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...83/edit/record

So is this the same Edward that is on 1911 census with Louisa? And a bit of a family scandal, or this is a red herring and need another Edward Sumpter from Hampshire?

Elaine and GL both found references to this

There is also a Charles (Ernest C) b 28 Mar 1902 living next door to them.

[cbcarolyn]

they are on reg of electors along with Charles and wife Daisy...wonder how to prove/disprove this is same Edward?