Working out which children belong to which parent - help please?

[tessie31082]

Hello!
On this 1911 census there are 2 step children and 2 children.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=2352&h=4113342&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=7572

The two step children's surname is Wadhams - Louisa Sumpter was married to James Wadhams in 1895, I have traced back and believe Louisa's MMN is Cook.
What I can't work out is whether she is the mother of the other 2 children or whether Edward Sumpter was married before.
There is no birth record that makes sense for the Sumpter boys Edward & Thomas - I can't find on the GRO a birth record using Sumpter/Cook. I also cannot find a marriage for Edward Sumpter to Louisa - there is a marriage of a Edward Sumpter to a Louisa Durey in 1907 but I can't find a marriage for a Louisa Cook or Louisa Wadhams to a Mr Durey before she is with Edward Sumpter?
Can anyone help unravel this for me or give me a pointer or two?
Thanks very much.
Tessie

[Elaine]

So far I think this is Louisa Durey 1911 with Edward F Sumpter

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW55-CV8

Edward T age 2 and daughter Katherine both MMN Durey

[GallowayLass]

The page shows the marriage to have been 7 years and the two youngest children are 5 and 3 so you would expect the current couple to be the parents. The 7 years married takes you to 1904 (or maybe 1903 depending on dates).
ancestry has a possible match record for a John Edward Sumpter (saddler) of the right age and born Hampshire being in a Welsh jail in March 1904 for being drunk. Have you followed up this man to eliminate him as one and the same person as the man on the census?

[tessie31082]

So far I think this is Louisa Durey 1911 with Edward F Sumpter

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW55-CV8

Edward T age 2 and daughter Katherine both MMN Durey

So that rules out the 1907 marriage I came across!

[tessie31082]

The page shows the marriage to have been 7 years and the two youngest children are 5 and 3 so you would expect the current couple to be the parents. The 7 years married takes you to 1904 (or maybe 1903 depending on dates).
ancestry has a possible match record for a John Edward Sumpter (saddler) of the right age and born Hampshire being in a Welsh jail in March 1904 for being drunk. Have you followed up this man to eliminate him as one and the same person as the man on the census?

No Gallowaylass I haven't - no other records are hints on Ancestry and not sure how I'd link them or not! I guess I need to look at marriages in Wales even though I'm not sure why either of them would be there bit it's always worth a look (in the morning now though lol)! Thank you

[GallowayLass]

This is opening more questions than it answers as the elder of the boys on the census is Edward and the younger Thomas but this one fits the age for Thomas but the Reg Dist for Deptford should be Greenwich. This one is different but the surname and mother’s mms are too much of a coincidence.

SUMPTER, EDWARD THOMAS	DUREY
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 751

[GallowayLass]

There is this for a possible Edward but it’s a death rather birth. Age and birth year are correct though so it must be someone different to the Edward Thomas SUMPTER born 1908

Edward Sumpter

91

24 Mar 1906

Jul 1997

Reading and Wokingham

Berkshire

C43A

3201C

259

[cbcarolyn]

tessie31082 maybe a daft question but is the census that you linked to the correct record? or is the one that Elaine found actually the one you needed?

[GallowayLass]

There is a public tree online that has Edward with a spouse Agnes Hunter who was born 1910 in Fife, Scotland and died 1998 in the same Reg Dist as Edward.

[GallowayLass]

Now doubting my post #6 as that could be the child in the census page that Elaine found.

[GallowayLass]

Now this is weird. There are other trees online with this family and one of them has the children of the family in Wandsworth census as half siblings of the family in your 1911 census! The father Edward Sumpter (no middle name) is given as born 1875 in Hampshire. I have found this in the version of the index that is on the same site as the trees but it does not some up on GRO site even with the two extra surname search options.

Are any of the trees there yours? None of the other public ones have a birth reference number for the two youngest boys on your census page nor are there any certs loaded into their galleries.

I tried to get back to this tree but I have lost it. Time to give up for the night I think.

[cbcarolyn]

is this them in 1901
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...363.1543608453

Name Age
James Wadhams 26
Louisa Wadhams 27
James Wadhams 5
Ethel Wadhams 4
Henry Cheesman 10
Herbert Moorlen 23

registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Dartford
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Piece: 702
Folio: 131
Page Number: 44
Household schedule number: 261

[tessie31082]

There is this for a possible Edward but it’s a death rather birth. Age and birth year are correct though so it must be someone different to the Edward Thomas SUMPTER born 1908

Edward Sumpter

91

24 Mar 1906

Jul 1997

Reading and Wokingham

Berkshire

C43A

3201C

259

This is the correct one I'm trying to trace

[tessie31082]

is this them in 1901
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...363.1543608453

Name Age
James Wadhams 26
Louisa Wadhams 27
James Wadhams 5
Ethel Wadhams 4
Henry Cheesman 10
Herbert Moorlen 23

registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Dartford
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Piece: 702
Folio: 131
Page Number: 44
Household schedule number: 261

I have this as them too

[tessie31082]

Now this is weird. There are other trees online with this family and one of them has the children of the family in Wandsworth census as half siblings of the family in your 1911 census! The father Edward Sumpter (no middle name) is given as born 1875 in Hampshire. I have found this in the version of the index that is on the same site as the trees but it does not some up on GRO site even with the two extra surname search options.

Are any of the trees there yours? None of the other public ones have a birth reference number for the two youngest boys on your census page nor are there any certs loaded into their galleries.

I tried to get back to this tree but I have lost it. Time to give up for the night I think.

I don't have a tree for this family - I'm trying to help a friend find the mum of the two Sumpter boys as they don't know who she was or where she came from!

[cbcarolyn]

there is this Ethel
WADHAMS, ETHEL MARGARET LOUISA COOK
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in STROOD Volume 02A Page 592

I am finished for the night too

[tessie31082]

tessie31082 maybe a daft question but is the census that you linked to the correct record? or is the one that Elaine found actually the one you needed?

Could be but the names link with the information I've been given - I'll take a look in the morning!

[GallowayLass]

Just a last find before I go. I found that there were two marriages in Wandsworth for an Edward SUMPTER one 1899 and one 1907. The 1899 bride was either Lily Elizabeth Reid or Annie Sleight. No children with the 2nd mms but two for the first. The 1907 was to Louisa Durey. That cert might show Edward to have been a widower.

SUMPTER, EDWARD FREDERICK	REID
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 812

SUMPTER, CHARLES ERNEST	REID
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 696

[Elaine]

I was trying to work out Edward last night and just couldn't quite but am just leaving a quick note to see if it helps any

There are military notes for an Edward from Tadley whose big main info is he goes in the marines and there is a record on TNA to download

Was looking at Lily Sumpter with her mother 1911

It was a bit late when I looked but won't have a chance to look this morning, hoping its might help and I will get the chance to look later

[tessie31082]

The page shows the marriage to have been 7 years and the two youngest children are 5 and 3 so you would expect the current couple to be the parents. The 7 years married takes you to 1904 (or maybe 1903 depending on dates).
ancestry has a possible match record for a John Edward Sumpter (saddler) of the right age and born Hampshire being in a Welsh jail in March 1904 for being drunk. Have you followed up this man to eliminate him as one and the same person as the man on the census?

I haven't been able trace the drunk guy. HIs middle name is Edward rather than 1st and can't find anymore on him :(

This is really tricky!