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Working out which children belong to which parent - help please?

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    #21
    Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
    Now this is weird. There are other trees online with this family and one of them has the children of the family in Wandsworth census as half siblings of the family in your 1911 census! The father Edward Sumpter (no middle name) is given as born 1875 in Hampshire. I have found this in the version of the index that is on the same site as the trees but it does not some up on GRO site even with the two extra surname search options.

    Are any of the trees there yours? None of the other public ones have a birth reference number for the two youngest boys on your census page nor are there any certs loaded into their galleries.

    I tried to get back to this tree but I have lost it. Time to give up for the night I think.
    Oh wow, I'll try and find it too - see what unravels!

    Comment


      #22
      So futher update from my friend. Her Dad, Edward b. 1906 apparently in Deptford was sent to live with Grandparents called George and Miriam Sumpter so I think I will try and find them and work forwards - I've not even had a brick wall this hard!

      Comment


        #23
        there are army records for James Wadhams, mother Louisa Wadhams, I assume these are same family. Step father maybe died and Louisa back to other name to make it easier for the record?

        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...9_205569-01304
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


          #24
          I have found a George and Miriam, but oddly can't find son Edward!

          1881
          ​​​​​​Name: Miriam Sumpter
          Age: 32
          Estimated birth year: abt 1849
          Relationship to Head: Wife
          Spouse: George Sumpter
          Gender: Female
          Where born: Tadley, Hampshire, England
          Civil Parish: Pamber
          County/Island: Hampshire
          Country: England
          Street address: Heath
          Marital status: Married
          Registration district: Basingstoke
          ED, institution, or vessel: 3
          Piece: 1256
          Folio: 33
          Page Number: 16
          Household Members:
          Name Age
          George Sumpter 35
          Miriam Sumpter 32
          Charles Sumpter 7
          Gherald Sumpter 5
          Robert Sumpter 3
          Kate Sumpter 2

          1891
          Name: Merriam Samples
          Gender: Female
          Age: 42
          Relationship: Wife
          Birth Year: 1849
          Spouse: George Samples

          Birth Place: Tadley, Hampshire, England
          Civil Parish: Shenfield
          Ecclesiastical parish: Shenfield
          Residence Place: Reading, Shenfield, Berkshire, England
          Registration district: Wokingham
          Sub registration district: Wokingham
          Piece: 1000
          Folio: 60
          Household Members:
          Name Age
          George Samples 44
          Merriam Samples 42
          Kate Samples 11
          Tiberius Samples 7
          Ann Samples 9
          Julia Samples 4
          Herbert Samples 1
          Joseph Norman 46
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
            there are army records for James Wadhams, mother Louisa Wadhams, I assume these are same family. Step father maybe died and Louisa back to other name to make it easier for the record?

            https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...9_205569-01304
            I can't see another name for her on there - will go to Ancestry and find record

            Comment


              #26
              I'm wondering if Gherald is Edward as no Gherald on GRO that I can see but an Edward that has the right names!

              Comment


                #27
                I think I have found Edward Sumpter snr's (b. 1875) death in 1945 Surrey Mid E on Freebmd so off to look for him on the 1939 register - see if that gives any clues!

                Comment


                  #28
                  The 1939 just shows up with the one married to Lily (Reid) and a child still with them Frederick. I am so confused now lol! Hints at the side for Gherald and the 1911 with Louisa. However, Louisa's 1st husband Mr Wadhams didn't die until 1902 and the Edward Sumpter/Lily Reid marriage is 1899 so can't be the same people Not sure what to do - write down all the info. and try to make sense of it that way?

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Sorry for the bombardments! I wonder whether they never married? Wonder that although the boys were known as these names as on the census whether they had different 'real' names and that's why they can't be found on the GRO? I will tell my friend I can't get any further forward. Thanks for all your help so far

                    Comment


                      #30
                      there is a Edward Sumpter with father as G Sumpter on school records dob 18 Jul 1875 school is in Hartley Wespall, so think it is likely to be him, or maybe a cousin?
                      Last edited by cbcarolyn; 29-05-20, 18:19.
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #31
                        The death record that you know is him has a date of birth in March? Or am I misremembering?

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                          The death record that you know is him has a date of birth in March? Or am I misremembering?
                          24th March and always told 1906 but never had a BC

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                            there is a Edward Sumpter with father as G Sumpter on school records dob 18 Jul 1875 school is in Hartley Wespall, so think it is likely to be him, or maybe a cousin?
                            Edward Sumpter snr who 'married' Louisa has a Dad called George

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Reading Observer 30 March 1923 - Edward Sumpter.JPG
                              Reading Observer 30 March 1923 - Edward Sumpter

                              I assume this is your Edward, and living in Shinfield/three Mile Cross ?
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                Reading Observer 30 March 1923 - Edward Sumpter.JPG
                                Reading Observer 30 March 1923 - Edward Sumpter

                                I assume this is your Edward, and living in Shinfield/three Mile Cross ?
                                Yes, my friend said he went to live with his grandparents George and Miriam and they live at 3 Mile Cross on one of the census

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  There seems to be this census in 1901
                                  https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...84&usePUB=true
                                  Name: Edward Sumpter
                                  Age: 26
                                  Estimated birth year: abt 1875
                                  Relation to Head: Head
                                  Gender: Male
                                  Spouse: Lily Sumpter
                                  Birth Place: Hampshire, England
                                  Civil Parish: Tooting Graveney
                                  Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas Tooting Graveney
                                  County/Island: London
                                  Retration district: Wandsworth
                                  Sub-registration district: Streatham
                                  ED, institution, or vessel: 09
                                  Neighbors: View others on page
                                  Piece: 470
                                  Folio: 68
                                  Page Number: 13
                                  Household schedule number: 87
                                  Household Members:
                                  Name Age
                                  Edward Sumpter 26
                                  Lily Sumpter 21
                                  Frederick Sumpter 1



                                  then in 1911
                                  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...793.1535224975
                                  she is here with her mother and the 2 children and he brother (No Edward)
                                  Name: Lily E Sumpter
                                  Age in 1911: 30
                                  Estimated birth year: abt 1881
                                  Relation to Head: Daughter
                                  Gender: Female
                                  Birth Place: Wimbledon, Surrey, England
                                  Civil Parish: Wandsworth
                                  County/Island: London
                                  Country: England
                                  Street address: 920 Garratt Lane, Tooting S W
                                  Marital status: Married
                                  Estimated Marriage Year: 1899
                                  Occupation: Scrubber Tooting
                                  Registration district: Wandsworth
                                  Registration District Number: 26
                                  Sub-registration district: Streatham
                                  ED, institution, or vessel: 80
                                  Piece: 2365
                                  Name Age
                                  Elizabeth Mansell 60
                                  Lily E Sumpter 30
                                  Frederick Reid 28
                                  Frederick Sumpter 11
                                  Ernest Charles Sumpter 9
                                  Annie Lawra Garrard 29

                                  But in 1939
                                  Edward, Lily and frederick
                                  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...83/edit/record

                                  So is this the same Edward that is on 1911 census with Louisa? And a bit of a family scandal, or this is a red herring and need another Edward Sumpter from Hampshire?

                                  Elaine and GL both found references to this

                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                                    Just a last find before I go. I found that there were two marriages in Wandsworth for an Edward SUMPTER one 1899 and one 1907. The 1899 bride was either Lily Elizabeth Reid or Annie Sleight. No children with the 2nd mms but two for the first. The 1907 was to Louisa Durey. That cert might show Edward to have been a widower.
                                    SUMPTER, EDWARD FREDERICK REID
                                    GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 812
                                    SUMPTER, CHARLES ERNEST REID
                                    GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 696
                                    Originally posted by Elaine View Post
                                    I was trying to work out Edward last night and just couldn't quite but am just leaving a quick note to see if it helps any

                                    There are military notes for an Edward from Tadley whose big main info is he goes in the marines and there is a record on TNA to download

                                    Was looking at Lily Sumpter with her mother 1911

                                    It was a bit late when I looked but won't have a chance to look this morning, hoping its might help and I will get the chance to look later
                                    My post refers to these above finds
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      there is the war record for robert Sumpter and he names all the family

                                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...793.1535224975

                                      family.JPG
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                        There seems to be this census in 1901
                                        https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...84&usePUB=true
                                        Name: Edward Sumpter
                                        Age: 26
                                        Estimated birth year: abt 1875
                                        Relation to Head: Head
                                        Gender: Male
                                        Spouse: Lily Sumpter
                                        Birth Place: Hampshire, England
                                        Civil Parish: Tooting Graveney
                                        Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas Tooting Graveney
                                        County/Island: London
                                        Retration district: Wandsworth
                                        Sub-registration district: Streatham
                                        ED, institution, or vessel: 09
                                        Neighbors: View others on page
                                        Piece: 470
                                        Folio: 68
                                        Page Number: 13
                                        Household schedule number: 87
                                        Household Members:
                                        Name Age
                                        Edward Sumpter 26
                                        Lily Sumpter 21
                                        Frederick Sumpter 1



                                        then in 1911
                                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...793.1535224975
                                        she is here with her mother and the 2 children and he brother (No Edward)
                                        Name: Lily E Sumpter
                                        Age in 1911: 30
                                        Estimated birth year: abt 1881
                                        Relation to Head: Daughter
                                        Gender: Female
                                        Birth Place: Wimbledon, Surrey, England
                                        Civil Parish: Wandsworth
                                        County/Island: London
                                        Country: England
                                        Street address: 920 Garratt Lane, Tooting S W
                                        Marital status: Married
                                        Estimated Marriage Year: 1899
                                        Occupation: Scrubber Tooting
                                        Registration district: Wandsworth
                                        Registration District Number: 26
                                        Sub-registration district: Streatham
                                        ED, institution, or vessel: 80
                                        Piece: 2365
                                        Name Age
                                        Elizabeth Mansell 60
                                        Lily E Sumpter 30
                                        Frederick Reid 28
                                        Frederick Sumpter 11
                                        Ernest Charles Sumpter 9
                                        Annie Lawra Garrard 29

                                        But in 1939
                                        Edward, Lily and frederick
                                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...83/edit/record


                                        So is this the same Edward that is on 1911 census with Louisa? And a bit of a family scandal, or this is a red herring and need another Edward Sumpter from Hampshire?

                                        Elaine and GL both found references to this
                                        There is also a Charles (Ernest C) b 28 Mar 1902 living next door to them.
                                        Kat
                                        My avatar is my Great Grandmother, Cassandra Elizabeth Palmer 1861 to 1940

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          they are on reg of electors along with Charles and wife Daisy...wonder how to prove/disprove this is same Edward?
                                          Carolyn
                                          Family Tree site

                                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                          Comment

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