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Working out which children belong to which parent - help please?

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    Working out which children belong to which parent - help please?

    Hello!
    On this 1911 census there are 2 step children and 2 children.
    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...&rhSource=7572
    The two step children's surname is Wadhams - Louisa Sumpter was married to James Wadhams in 1895, I have traced back and believe Louisa's MMN is Cook.
    What I can't work out is whether she is the mother of the other 2 children or whether Edward Sumpter was married before.
    There is no birth record that makes sense for the Sumpter boys Edward & Thomas - I can't find on the GRO a birth record using Sumpter/Cook. I also cannot find a marriage for Edward Sumpter to Louisa - there is a marriage of a Edward Sumpter to a Louisa Durey in 1907 but I can't find a marriage for a Louisa Cook or Louisa Wadhams to a Mr Durey before she is with Edward Sumpter?
    Can anyone help unravel this for me or give me a pointer or two?
    Thanks very much.
    Tessie

    #2
    So far I think this is Louisa Durey 1911 with Edward F Sumpter

    https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW55-CV8

    Edward T age 2 and daughter Katherine both MMN Durey
    Elaine

    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

    Comment


      #3
      The page shows the marriage to have been 7 years and the two youngest children are 5 and 3 so you would expect the current couple to be the parents. The 7 years married takes you to 1904 (or maybe 1903 depending on dates).
      ancestry has a possible match record for a John Edward Sumpter (saddler) of the right age and born Hampshire being in a Welsh jail in March 1904 for being drunk. Have you followed up this man to eliminate him as one and the same person as the man on the census?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Elaine View Post
        So far I think this is Louisa Durey 1911 with Edward F Sumpter

        https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW55-CV8

        Edward T age 2 and daughter Katherine both MMN Durey
        So that rules out the 1907 marriage I came across!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
          The page shows the marriage to have been 7 years and the two youngest children are 5 and 3 so you would expect the current couple to be the parents. The 7 years married takes you to 1904 (or maybe 1903 depending on dates).
          ancestry has a possible match record for a John Edward Sumpter (saddler) of the right age and born Hampshire being in a Welsh jail in March 1904 for being drunk. Have you followed up this man to eliminate him as one and the same person as the man on the census?
          No Gallowaylass I haven't - no other records are hints on Ancestry and not sure how I'd link them or not! I guess I need to look at marriages in Wales even though I'm not sure why either of them would be there bit it's always worth a look (in the morning now though lol)! Thank you

          Comment


            #6
            This is opening more questions than it answers as the elder of the boys on the census is Edward and the younger Thomas but this one fits the age for Thomas but the Reg Dist for Deptford should be Greenwich. This one is different but the surname and mother’s mms are too much of a coincidence.

            SUMPTER, EDWARD THOMAS DUREY
            GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 751

            Comment


              #7
              There is this for a possible Edward but it’s a death rather birth. Age and birth year are correct though so it must be someone different to the Edward Thomas SUMPTER born 1908
              Edward Sumpter
              91
              24 Mar 1906
              Jul 1997
              Reading and Wokingham
              Berkshire
              C43A
              3201C
              259

              Comment


                #8
                tessie31082 maybe a daft question but is the census that you linked to the correct record? or is the one that Elaine found actually the one you needed?
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                  #9
                  There is a public tree online that has Edward with a spouse Agnes Hunter who was born 1910 in Fife, Scotland and died 1998 in the same Reg Dist as Edward.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Now doubting my post #6 as that could be the child in the census page that Elaine found.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Now this is weird. There are other trees online with this family and one of them has the children of the family in Wandsworth census as half siblings of the family in your 1911 census! The father Edward Sumpter (no middle name) is given as born 1875 in Hampshire. I have found this in the version of the index that is on the same site as the trees but it does not some up on GRO site even with the two extra surname search options.

                      Are any of the trees there yours? None of the other public ones have a birth reference number for the two youngest boys on your census page nor are there any certs loaded into their galleries.

                      I tried to get back to this tree but I have lost it. Time to give up for the night I think.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        is this them in 1901
                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...363.1543608453

                        ​​​​​​
                        Name Age
                        James Wadhams 26
                        Louisa Wadhams 27
                        James Wadhams 5
                        Ethel Wadhams 4
                        Henry Cheesman 10
                        Herbert Moorlen 23

                        ​​​​​​registration district: Dartford
                        Sub-registration district: Dartford
                        ED, institution, or vessel: 05
                        Piece: 702
                        Folio: 131
                        Page Number: 44
                        Household schedule number: 261
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                          There is this for a possible Edward but it’s a death rather birth. Age and birth year are correct though so it must be someone different to the Edward Thomas SUMPTER born 1908
                          Edward Sumpter
                          91
                          24 Mar 1906
                          Jul 1997
                          Reading and Wokingham
                          Berkshire
                          C43A
                          3201C
                          259
                          This is the correct one I'm trying to trace

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                            is this them in 1901
                            https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...363.1543608453

                            ​​​​​​
                            Name Age
                            James Wadhams 26
                            Louisa Wadhams 27
                            James Wadhams 5
                            Ethel Wadhams 4
                            Henry Cheesman 10
                            Herbert Moorlen 23

                            ​​​​​​registration district: Dartford
                            Sub-registration district: Dartford
                            ED, institution, or vessel: 05
                            Piece: 702
                            Folio: 131
                            Page Number: 44
                            Household schedule number: 261
                            I have this as them too

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                              Now this is weird. There are other trees online with this family and one of them has the children of the family in Wandsworth census as half siblings of the family in your 1911 census! The father Edward Sumpter (no middle name) is given as born 1875 in Hampshire. I have found this in the version of the index that is on the same site as the trees but it does not some up on GRO site even with the two extra surname search options.

                              Are any of the trees there yours? None of the other public ones have a birth reference number for the two youngest boys on your census page nor are there any certs loaded into their galleries.

                              I tried to get back to this tree but I have lost it. Time to give up for the night I think.
                              I don't have a tree for this family - I'm trying to help a friend find the mum of the two Sumpter boys as they don't know who she was or where she came from!

                              Comment


                                #16
                                there is this Ethel
                                ​​​​​​WADHAMS, ETHEL MARGARET LOUISA COOK
                                GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in STROOD Volume 02A Page 592

                                I am finished for the night too
                                Carolyn
                                Family Tree site

                                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                  tessie31082 maybe a daft question but is the census that you linked to the correct record? or is the one that Elaine found actually the one you needed?
                                  Could be but the names link with the information I've been given - I'll take a look in the morning!

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Just a last find before I go. I found that there were two marriages in Wandsworth for an Edward SUMPTER one 1899 and one 1907. The 1899 bride was either Lily Elizabeth Reid or Annie Sleight. No children with the 2nd mms but two for the first. The 1907 was to Louisa Durey. That cert might show Edward to have been a widower.
                                    SUMPTER, EDWARD FREDERICK REID
                                    GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 812
                                    SUMPTER, CHARLES ERNEST REID
                                    GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 696

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I was trying to work out Edward last night and just couldn't quite but am just leaving a quick note to see if it helps any

                                      There are military notes for an Edward from Tadley whose big main info is he goes in the marines and there is a record on TNA to download

                                      Was looking at Lily Sumpter with her mother 1911

                                      It was a bit late when I looked but won't have a chance to look this morning, hoping its might help and I will get the chance to look later
                                      Elaine

                                      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                                        The page shows the marriage to have been 7 years and the two youngest children are 5 and 3 so you would expect the current couple to be the parents. The 7 years married takes you to 1904 (or maybe 1903 depending on dates).
                                        ancestry has a possible match record for a John Edward Sumpter (saddler) of the right age and born Hampshire being in a Welsh jail in March 1904 for being drunk. Have you followed up this man to eliminate him as one and the same person as the man on the census?
                                        I haven't been able trace the drunk guy. HIs middle name is Edward rather than 1st and can't find anymore on him :(

                                        This is really tricky!

                                        Comment

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