Australian marriage and births

[Gardengirl]

Well, it's taken a while but I have finally sifted through the information and pulled what I know together into a new story on my blog site for anyone who is interested. There's still unanswered questions about how / when Thomas and the children came back to England but they might never get answered. I have submitted it as a question for Ask the Experts at RootsTech so I might get some suggestions from them.

In the meantime this is the story so far https://ourpaststories.weebly.com/

I will write up their lives after they came home in another chapter. Let's hope it doesn't take me quite so long this time!

[Gardengirl]

Did Annie Caroline sign her name with Katherine in the middle? Could it be the rector misremembering? Are you looking at the PR or BT?

Yes, I went back to the parish register and she has signed it as Annie Katherine.

I do kind of understand why the girls in particular changed their names, when I was young it was not uncommon for young girls to decide to change their names, almost as a statement of independence and individuality or maybe their given name reminds them of someone they didn't like or their choice of new name might be to reflect someone that they admire. I wonder if Annie Caroline admired her new sister-in-law's courage in going to Australia.

My next big challenge in the story is to unravel why Lady Kate (Katherine Annie) came back from Australia, apparently on her own without her two little girls. There is a newspaper item that her husband was brought before an insolvency court just after she left. Maybe she had just had enough? But why are the children not on the passenger list? Did she leave them behind? Her husband also came back to England at some point and by the 1901 census they were together with two more children - both born in England.

Lots of loose ends still to tie up!

[PhotoFamily]

In FH, you may enter other names and titles, and indicate the preferred. I use a very old version of FH, but on my screen, the Individual's name has a faint "more(+)..." - when I click on that, a box pops up for me to enter additional names/titles.

Not sure that it does much except allowing you to keep track of the alternatives that you've seen.

I don't think of Katherine as an alternative name to Caroline, tho I believe both use the nickname "Kitty".

Did Annie Caroline sign her name with Katherine in the middle? Could it be the rector misremembering? Are you looking at the PR or BT?

[cbcarolyn]

On ancestry I think it depends if you feel you have found all that you needed to know, as I think of it as a search facility first and foremost.

In your own software if it can be different to ancestry - it has to be what they were known as?

[Gardengirl]

It’s not so much about where & how to record the names but what I should refer to them as Annie aka Katherine aka Catherine. Do you change the given name to the one most frequently used or stick to the one she was given when she was born? Actually in my head I have been calling her Lady Kate because on her marriage register she gave her occupation as Lady.

[cbcarolyn]

You can add names in Ancestry, and tick the preferred box, but not really sure what it achieves.

[Gardengirl]

Four months later and just as I start thinking I am making some progress another tangle of names and dates comes up.

I still have masses of questions and theories but can I ask first how do you all deal with people who chose to change their 'known as' names during their lives. So far I have stuck to keeping their given names on my tree as the one they were registered or baptised with. But I am now finding this confusing if in later life they are inconsistently known as something else.

For example..
b 1861 Catherine Annie Palmer
1871 census Annie Palmer
1881 census Katherine Palmer (left home living as a boarder elsewhere)
1888 marriage register Katherine Annie Palmer
1889 daughter's birth registration Annie Catherine nee Palmer
and a few subsequent births etc Annie Catherine
1911 census Catherine
1911 newspaper article about shoplifting Annie
1915 daughter's baptism Annie Catherine Skitteral
1949 death inquest Anne Kathleen

To add to this confusion her husband Thomas H Skitteral had a sister called Annie Caroline. Bizarrely in the 1891 census and when she got married in 1892 (when the lady above might have still been in Australia) she called herself Annie Katherine Skitteral. Why on earth would she change her middle name from Caroline to Katherine? Are these two names generally interchangeable the way Henry and Harry can be? Or are they just affectations or whims of the time?

Sorry that is a bit long winded but it really helps to clarify the issues in my own mind if I try to explain it clearly to other people. But basically I would like your suggestions about how to deal with these changes in my tree software. (I am currently using Family Historian and Ancestry).

[cbcarolyn]

that is sad to lose so many.

[Gardengirl]

Chores done and rain stopped play in the garden so back to the searching

I decided to start by reviewing some of the time lines. Katherine's family first and sadly her mother had a miserable experience of marriage and motherhood. She was married in June 1858 and had her first child, a boy called Thomas Warder in 1859 Q2. Sadly he died aged 4 months. The next child, another boy called George William was born in 1860 Q2 but sadly died the following year in 1861 Q3. The next child was Catherine Annie, born in 1861 Q3 who lived to lead such an interesting life. Soon after, in 1863 Q1 another boy, called Charles Whale was born but he, too, tragically only lived for a few months and died in 1863 Q3. Goodness knows what damage all this did to poor Janet but she also died in 1863 Q2. 4 children in the space of 5 years.

What a tragic story and a very difficult start for poor little Catherine, who's father then remarried in 1866 Q4, to Emily Kendall when Catherine was just 5 years old.

[Gardengirl]

I haven’t looked into it but I guess it was possible to be in the asylum and still register to vote. He wasn’t necessarily 'mad' , he may have been suffering from depression, dementia or something similar.

I've just read on another thread that if you are still paying the rates on your house then you are still entitled to vote. I wonder if that applies to Thomas. Off to do some more searching.......

But better do some chores first

[Gardengirl]

Ooh, good morning, Macbev. We must have posted at the same time. I have got the dates you have given for Daisy and have ordered her death certificate in case it contains any clues.

I haven’t looked into a possible reason for meeting but that is an interesting line of enquiry to follow up though. Thanks.

[Gardengirl]

I haven’t looked into it but I guess it was possible to be in the asylum and still register to vote. He wasn’t necessarily 'mad' , he may have been suffering from depression, dementia or something similar.

[Macbev]

Given that Daisy Kate Skitteral was born in Australia in 1891 and Violet Ethel Skitteral was enrolled at Salter Hill School in 1892, that is a narrow time frame for the family's return to England. Can't see any likely passenger lists though.
I guess you have the death of Daisy Kate in 1894 in Southwark.

Trying to find a possible meeting of Thomas and Catherine Annie in Norwood, I looked at the 1881 census for that area, but although Thomas was there, the only possible connection I saw was a Sarah Kendall, b. 1830 London, occupation teacher of English. Could she have been a relative of Catherine's stepmother?

[cbcarolyn]

I'm on the sofa with an ipad now so will check the ancestry links when I’m back on my laptop. Probably tomorrow because I’ll be watching A House through Time later.

I see that he referred to the national asylum register, and then found quite a lot of history relating to that record,

Long G must be Long Grove?

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...1-86a91398bd26

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Grove_Hospital

1911 census - can't spot the initials via a search thought the age and occupation would rule him in or out https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti..._02965_0143_33

he is on the reg of electors in Gipsy Road 1913 and 1911.

Did you have him on 1911 census?

the record states he was there from 1909 to 1925

[cbcarolyn]

That John Skitteral is my Thomas Skitteral's cousin.

I guess you can assume that he was close to his family then if he came back and lived in the same road. I see another is Skitteral is a local councillor - great to have an unusual name.

[Gardengirl]

That John Skitteral is my Thomas Skitteral's cousin.

[Gardengirl]

Ah, yes, I found that one. The Norwood News has been a great source of interesting stories. I still have more searching to do on the other strand of the family, the WOODWARDS, but that will take a bit longer as it is a less unusual name.

[cbcarolyn]

bit off tangent, but here is a newspaper article Skiteralls in Gipsy Road, Norwood.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/...eral%20norwood

father John and son Henry James. thought it maybe useful

[Elaine]

George William and Catherine Anne Palmer were both baptised at St. Margaret Westminster 27 Oct 1861

[Gardengirl]

such a shame without an occupation not sure how you can tie her up.

I think the birth place as Pimlico and the change of name spelling to Katherine make me fairly confident that it is her. Am I being too optimistic?