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    #61
    such a shame without an occupation not sure how you can tie her up.
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


      #62
      GRO

      Catherine Annie Palmer Q3 1861 Westminster MMN Damp

      Marriage
      1 Jun 1858 Westminster
      Janet Damp father William Damp
      Francis Palmer father George Damp
      Attached Files
      Elaine

      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
        such a shame without an occupation not sure how you can tie her up.
        I think the birth place as Pimlico and the change of name spelling to Katherine make me fairly confident that it is her. Am I being too optimistic?

        Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

        Comment


          #64
          George William and Catherine Anne Palmer were both baptised at St. Margaret Westminster 27 Oct 1861
          Attached Files
          Elaine

          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

          Comment


            #65
            bit off tangent, but here is a newspaper article Skiteralls in Gipsy Road, Norwood.

            https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/...eral%20norwood

            father John and son Henry James. thought it maybe useful
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


              #66
              Ah, yes, I found that one. The Norwood News has been a great source of interesting stories. I still have more searching to do on the other strand of the family, the WOODWARDS, but that will take a bit longer as it is a less unusual name.
              Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

              Comment


                #67
                That John Skitteral is my Thomas Skitteral's cousin.
                Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
                  That John Skitteral is my Thomas Skitteral's cousin.
                  I guess you can assume that he was close to his family then if he came back and lived in the same road. I see another is Skitteral is a local councillor - great to have an unusual name.
                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post


                    I'm on the sofa with an ipad now so will check the ancestry links when I’m back on my laptop. Probably tomorrow because I’ll be watching A House through Time later.
                    I see that he referred to the national asylum register, and then found quite a lot of history relating to that record,

                    Long G must be Long Grove?

                    https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...1-86a91398bd26

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Grove_Hospital
                    1911 census - can't spot the initials via a search thought the age and occupation would rule him in or out https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti..._02965_0143_33

                    he is on the reg of electors in Gipsy Road 1913 and 1911.

                    Did you have him on 1911 census?

                    the record states he was there from 1909 to 1925
                    Last edited by cbcarolyn; 02-06-20, 23:07.
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Given that Daisy Kate Skitteral was born in Australia in 1891 and Violet Ethel Skitteral was enrolled at Salter Hill School in 1892, that is a narrow time frame for the family's return to England. Can't see any likely passenger lists though.
                      I guess you have the death of Daisy Kate in 1894 in Southwark.

                      Trying to find a possible meeting of Thomas and Catherine Annie in Norwood, I looked at the 1881 census for that area, but although Thomas was there, the only possible connection I saw was a Sarah Kendall, b. 1830 London, occupation teacher of English. Could she have been a relative of Catherine's stepmother?

                      Beverley



                      Comment


                        #71
                        I haven’t looked into it but I guess it was possible to be in the asylum and still register to vote. He wasn’t necessarily 'mad' , he may have been suffering from depression, dementia or something similar.
                        Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Ooh, good morning, Macbev. We must have posted at the same time. I have got the dates you have given for Daisy and have ordered her death certificate in case it contains any clues.

                          I haven’t looked into a possible reason for meeting but that is an interesting line of enquiry to follow up though. Thanks.
                          Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
                            I haven’t looked into it but I guess it was possible to be in the asylum and still register to vote. He wasn’t necessarily 'mad' , he may have been suffering from depression, dementia or something similar.
                            I've just read on another thread that if you are still paying the rates on your house then you are still entitled to vote. I wonder if that applies to Thomas. Off to do some more searching.......

                            But better do some chores first
                            Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Chores done and rain stopped play in the garden so back to the searching

                              I decided to start by reviewing some of the time lines. Katherine's family first and sadly her mother had a miserable experience of marriage and motherhood. She was married in June 1858 and had her first child, a boy called Thomas Warder in 1859 Q2. Sadly he died aged 4 months. The next child, another boy called George William was born in 1860 Q2 but sadly died the following year in 1861 Q3. The next child was Catherine Annie, born in 1861 Q3 who lived to lead such an interesting life. Soon after, in 1863 Q1 another boy, called Charles Whale was born but he, too, tragically only lived for a few months and died in 1863 Q3. Goodness knows what damage all this did to poor Janet but she also died in 1863 Q2. 4 children in the space of 5 years.

                              What a tragic story and a very difficult start for poor little Catherine, who's father then remarried in 1866 Q4, to Emily Kendall when Catherine was just 5 years old.
                              Last edited by cbcarolyn; 03-06-20, 16:47.
                              Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                              Comment


                                #75
                                that is sad to lose so many.
                                Carolyn
                                Family Tree site

                                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                  #76
                                  Four months later and just as I start thinking I am making some progress another tangle of names and dates comes up.

                                  I still have masses of questions and theories but can I ask first how do you all deal with people who chose to change their 'known as' names during their lives. So far I have stuck to keeping their given names on my tree as the one they were registered or baptised with. But I am now finding this confusing if in later life they are inconsistently known as something else.

                                  For example..
                                  b 1861 Catherine Annie Palmer
                                  1871 census Annie Palmer
                                  1881 census Katherine Palmer (left home living as a boarder elsewhere)
                                  1888 marriage register Katherine Annie Palmer
                                  1889 daughter's birth registration Annie Catherine nee Palmer
                                  and a few subsequent births etc Annie Catherine
                                  1911 census Catherine
                                  1911 newspaper article about shoplifting Annie
                                  1915 daughter's baptism Annie Catherine Skitteral
                                  1949 death inquest Anne Kathleen

                                  To add to this confusion her husband Thomas H Skitteral had a sister called Annie Caroline. Bizarrely in the 1891 census and when she got married in 1892 (when the lady above might have still been in Australia) she called herself Annie Katherine Skitteral. Why on earth would she change her middle name from Caroline to Katherine? Are these two names generally interchangeable the way Henry and Harry can be? Or are they just affectations or whims of the time?

                                  Sorry that is a bit long winded but it really helps to clarify the issues in my own mind if I try to explain it clearly to other people. But basically I would like your suggestions about how to deal with these changes in my tree software. (I am currently using Family Historian and Ancestry).
                                  Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                  Comment


                                    #77
                                    You can add names in Ancestry, and tick the preferred box, but not really sure what it achieves.
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #78
                                      It’s not so much about where & how to record the names but what I should refer to them as Annie aka Katherine aka Catherine. Do you change the given name to the one most frequently used or stick to the one she was given when she was born? Actually in my head I have been calling her Lady Kate because on her marriage register she gave her occupation as Lady.
                                      Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                      Comment


                                        #79
                                        On ancestry I think it depends if you feel you have found all that you needed to know, as I think of it as a search facility first and foremost.

                                        In your own software if it can be different to ancestry - it has to be what they were known as?
                                        Carolyn
                                        Family Tree site

                                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                        Comment


                                          #80
                                          In FH, you may enter other names and titles, and indicate the preferred. I use a very old version of FH, but on my screen, the Individual's name has a faint "more(+)..." - when I click on that, a box pops up for me to enter additional names/titles.

                                          Not sure that it does much except allowing you to keep track of the alternatives that you've seen.

                                          I don't think of Katherine as an alternative name to Caroline, tho I believe both use the nickname "Kitty".

                                          Did Annie Caroline sign her name with Katherine in the middle? Could it be the rector misremembering? Are you looking at the PR or BT?
                                          ------------------------------------------------------
                                          My Families
                                          London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

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