Australian marriage and births

[Elaine]

GRO

Catherine Annie Palmer Q3 1861 Westminster MMN Damp

Marriage
1 Jun 1858 Westminster
Janet Damp father William Damp
Francis Palmer father George Damp

[cbcarolyn]

such a shame without an occupation not sure how you can tie her up.

[Gardengirl]

the census where she is a boarder has confused me on her occupation, is that nil? if so how was she paying the rent? so like Beverley says keen to move out!

I wondered about that, too. A couple of possibilities are that her father is paying if she had to move out because she didn’t get on with the new wife or maybe there just wasn’t enough space in the house. Or maybe the family that she was staying with were friends and not charging her for a temporary stay. I must see if I can find the locations on a map and see how far apart they are.

I'm on the sofa with an ipad now so will check the ancestry links when I’m back on my laptop. Probably tomorrow because I’ll be watching A House through Time later.

[cbcarolyn]

Thos Hy Skitterall, b. abt 1864, age 24 yrs, occupation 'baker' arrived per 'Orient' 12 Apr 1888. bound for Melbourne. I can't see any Palmers on board

https://search.ancestrylibraryeditio...=successSource

https://search.ancestrylibraryedition.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1635&h=3180456&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=CRL7778&_phstart=successSource

takes you to this image
https://www.ancestrylibraryedition.c...&usePUBJs=true

[cbcarolyn]

Ah, thank you. I'll try that.

Watch this space.............

......... Nope, that didn't work for me. This is the link

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...ntPageIsStart=

I replaced ancestry with ancestrylibraryedition and got Page Unavailable.

My brain is hurting now so I'll try again in the morning. Night night all.

I have had a go, it works when I am open on a record page, but not when I am not, weird.

I have edited your link and it then takes me to here
https://www.ancestrylibraryedition.c...&usePUBJs=true

You will need to select quote on here to see the full URL

[cbcarolyn]

the census where she is a boarder has confused me on her occupation, is that nil? if so how was she paying the rent? so like Beverley says keen to move out!

[Gardengirl]

Elaine has already put the marriage notice up in post #2. If Annie was married in October , either of the passenger lists are possible.

Of course, I had forgotten that. So much new information to add to the tired old grey matter.

Your summary of the facts is great. The only thing that I would add is that I think "6. Chn: a) Ann, b.1862 Pimlico (may be an illegit child, or perhaps Emily had an earlier marriage?)" could be Annie Catherine?

[Macbev]

OK....this is how I see the family. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. Francis Palmer, s/o George Palmer & Catherine Warder was b. 16 Aug 1831 at Newport I o W.
2. June 1858, he married Janet Damp, b. 1836 I o W, d/o George Damp & Jane ?
3. Chn a) George William, b. 1860 Falmouth Cornwall, d. Aug 1861 Westminster
b) Catherine Annie b. 1861 Westminster
4. Janet Palmer d. Sep 1863
5. Francis Palmer m. 1866 Emily Julia Kendall ,b. Aug 1838 Chelsea London, d/o Thomas Kendall & Euphemia ?
6. Chn: a) Ann, b.1862 Pimlico (may be an illegit child, or perhaps Emily had an earlier marriage?)
b) Eliza, b. 1868 Battersea London
c) Emily F b. 1871 Chelsea
d) Frank b. 1873
e) Frederick b. 1875
f) Christopher c b 1877
7. Francis d. 26 Apr 1899
8. Catherine Annie emig Australia 1888, married Thomas Henry Skitteral the same year. They remained in Australia long enough to have two daughters...Violet & Daisy, then returned to England
9. Thomas 'disappeared' into an asylum between 1909 and 1925 and Catherine Annie went on to having an interesting life.

I don't find it at all surprising that Catherine Annie followed Thomas out to Australia all by herself....quite likely she didn't get on all that well with the stepmother and lots of half siblings.

[Macbev]

Elaine has already put the marriage notice up in post #2. If Annie was married in October , either of the passenger lists are possible.

Personally, I think the Sept 1888 one sounds likely- especially if she described herself as a 'lady'. If she was a housemaid as per the 1885 list, I can't see 'lady' being applicable. The initials used (Miss A.C. Palmer) fit too. It looks to me as though she followed Thomas out to Australia to marry him, having met him in Norwood, Surrey, as per the marriage announcement.

[Gardengirl]

A possible...Annie Palmer, housemaid, 21 yrs, disembarking Melbourne, from the 'Iberia', 17 Nov 1885, from London. Appears to be travelling unaccompanied by family.

Or this one: Miss A.C. Palmer, b. abt 1864, age:24 yrs, arriving Melbourne 28 Sep 1888 per 'Liguria' from London. no occupation given, again without family.

Thank you so much for persevering with this for me, Macbev. Much appreciated

Those both look possible but both make her year of birth c 1864. I'm sure she was born in 1861 so if anything, travelling alone she would have given an earlier date to make herself look older?

In the 1881 census she is 19 and has left the family home and gone to live in Streatham as a boarder with the Barrett family.

The Australian marriage date is 22 October 1888 and she gives her age as 25. The first child, Violet, was born in August the following year so it wasn't a rushed marriage due to pregnancy but arriving in September and getting married in October seems quick unless they knew each other before in England, maybe he went ahead to check out life in Australia then sent for her later? Or did she go first, on the Iberia in 1885 and he followed her out there?

Do you have access to any newspaper archives around that time that might mention the marriage?

[Macbev]

A possible...Annie Palmer, housemaid, 21 yrs, disembarking Melbourne, from the 'Iberia', 17 Nov 1885, from London. Appears to be travelling unaccompanied by family.

Or this one: Miss A.C. Palmer, b. abt 1864, age:24 yrs, arriving Melbourne 28 Sep 1888 per 'Liguria' from London. no occupation given, again without family.

[Gardengirl]

And in one of the shoplifting articles his wife says that her husband is in the assylum.

[Gardengirl]

I see Violet Ethel Skitteral was baptised St Luke Lambeth 4 Jun 1915, with birth date given as 13 Aug 1890. Living at 135 Gipsy road, Thomas' occupation, decorator. So perhaps not the one admitted to Long G.

Ah! That's just to confuse us even more!! She got married in the same church two days later

[Gardengirl]

Thos Hy Skitterall, b. abt 1864, age 24 yrs, occupation 'baker' arrived per 'Orient' 12 Apr 1888. bound for Melbourne. I can't see any Palmers on board

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/...=successSource

Thanks, Macbev. I believe this is my man as the name is so unusual and I think I have already viewed this page via the library edition. I can't follow your link as I haven't got a worldwide subscription. It was this page that led me to my search for the Palmers. If they weren't on this ship, how and when did they get to Australia and did Thomas already know Katherine or did they meet there? Not a ship romance if you can't find them on the Orient either. Did she travel on her own or with her parents? Or with someone else?

[Macbev]

I see Violet Ethel Skitteral was baptised St Luke Lambeth 4 Jun 1915, with birth date given as 13 Aug 1890. Living at 135 Gipsy road, Thomas' occupation, decorator. So perhaps not the one admitted to Long G.

[GallowayLass]

https://www.southlondonclub.co.uk/bl...-of-bon-marche a lot of history on here....

Very interesting. Methinks that as the articles in question wrapped in the towel came from different departments in the store there likely was a “plan of action” in acquiring them.

[Macbev]

20 Nov 1909 , a Thos Hy Skitteral, pauper, was admitted to 'Long G' Lunacy Asylum, discharged 31 July 1925

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=9051&h=691738&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=1780

[Gardengirl]

https://www.southlondonclub.co.uk/bl...-of-bon-marche a lot of history on here....

Great article - thank you.

[Gardengirl]

this is frank in 1881 I think:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...30/edit/record

did you have that?

Yes, I've got that one. I need to collate what I have got and clarify on here what the missing bits are. It's getting quite confusing

Need to go and do a few chores now though. Back later when I can justify a few more hours at my laptop

[Gardengirl]

Have you come across this 1851, apprentice carpenter

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=8860&h=5850273&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=9841

The hint is a non-conformist baptism, parents George Palmer and Catherine Warder married in Kensington and there is a Surrey marriage Bond and Allegation which states George is a widower

I've got them 1841 on FMP Robert Palmer born 1839 MMN Warder

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M79D-4T5

Thanks, Elaine. I have them in 1851 and the 1841 census shows on FMP https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcr...1%2F0013695059 but not yet found it on Ancestry.