Anybody get frustrated with research?

[grumpy]

Compared to research these days with that of 40 or so years ago I reckon, whilst not a doddle, FH is so much easier now than then.
Imagine that for us in the far flung reaches of the world, having to put up with researchers and the attendant costs to pay them for their time, delays associated with corresponding, waiting for micro fische to arrive, nothing on the internet because it didn’t exist, having to think about what you wanted to do next, etc etc, now we have lots of stuff on the net that you can get instantly So I don’t get frustrated by a short hold up at all.

[Olde Crone Holden]

You are right of course, Grumpy, but there are some aspects of old style research that I miss. Pre internet, I ordered film of church registers through my local mormon family history centre. I always browsed the film from beginning to end even if I was just looking for one event and often found things I didn't know. Working chronologically seems to have better results for me, even now. The gems I found in those registers were never transcribed and still aren't - things like a list of confirmations at the back of the register or the swearing of the oath of allegiance to the king, complete with original signatures etc and gossipy comments about people's morals, lol "the wife of Thomas Green keeps too much company with the son of William Thomas" and so on.

But yes - sometimes my research advanced by one fact a year, lol, and it was hard going, because it was lonely and you don't know what you don't know, so you don't know where to look.

OC

[kylejustin]

I think i get frustrated more with foreign research rather than british. And this is simply because england and scotland are well covered online with bmd's and census- but parish records are patchy and i wish some counties would get done. However british records are terrible in that they record so little, and ireland is a nightmare.

having said that, while french and german records are quite detailed, there are no central records, so it is a bit like the old days of research, where you have no idea where to look when stuck. And not much is online for eastern europe (germany, poland etc), french parish records are on the departement websites but unindexed and sometimes very poor microfilm. Though they are usually good at telling you on parish records if someone was not local to the area, ie a burial may record the parish of origin or a marriage might record where a wittness was from.

i don't mind ploughing through unindexed images, if i know i will find something!

[Janet]

Do not give up too easily on Irish FH. Just yesterday I came across a gem of a document in Tipperary and when I found online the the minutes for 1846/7 for Thurles workhouse. I knew they were coming online a few years ago but had tried many times before without success until yesterday. It is a gem to read giving n names of roads where food was required during the famine years, all roads where my family lived. Names are mentioned who were sponsors/witnesses to my family members and one of the Cormick Brothers are mentioned as being s dismissed from the job by the land agent Crowley who was later murdered by they say the Cormick Brothers, a real gem for anyone researching Thurles.

If you just have Ireland look closely at the surnames and see if you can locate that name in an area of Ireland for example Sullivan is closely associated with Cork County and in particular the Beara Peninsula. I realise this is not the easiest of ways but can be done with other names though I do not know all Irish names and their associated areas. For those with Tipperary ancestors the website Hidden Tipperary is brilliant and you can subscribe to get newsletters.

Janet

[Darksecretz]

Do not give up too easily on Irish FH. Just yesterday I came across a gem of a document in Tipperary and when I found online the the minutes for 1846/7 for Thurles workhouse. I knew they were coming online a few years ago but had tried many times before without success until yesterday. It is a gem to read giving n names of roads where food was required during the famine years, all roads where my family lived. Names are mentioned who were sponsors/witnesses to my family members and one of the Cormick Brothers are mentioned as being s dismissed from the job by the land agent Crowley who was later murdered by they say the Cormick Brothers, a real gem for anyone researching Thurles.

If you just have Ireland look closely at the surnames and see if you can locate that name in an area of Ireland for example Sullivan is closely associated with Cork County and in particular the Beara Peninsula. I realise this is not the easiest of ways but can be done with other names though I do not know all Irish names and their associated areas. For those with Tipperary ancestors the website Hidden Tipperary is brilliant and you can subscribe to get newsletters.

Janet

That's certainly food for thought Janet The surname I have is Larkin/s sometimes its Larkin and others it's Larkins. I'm presuming that she was Catholic as she had her children christened so I'm guessing that she came from southern Ireland.. that is all I know. [and she gives her father as two different men on her marriage certs with different occupations too. [illegitimate?]

[GallowayLass]

Never assume that Roman Catholic faith meant they were from what is now Eire. There’s a strong chance that they were but there’s a possibility that they were not.
Until 1921, all Ireland was one entity as far as civil registration and churches went. In what became NI, there were Roman Catholic residents as well as Protestant ones including all the variations - Church of Ireland, Presbyterian etc.
As an illustration of the opposite side of the coin - the assumption that Protestant persons did not live in the southern counties - almost a decade before Partition, in 1912 when the Ulster Covenant was signed in Belfast, several thousand southern unionist supporters travelled up from Dublin to sign. Another thousand odd people signed it in various now southern counties. In county Monaghan for instance a quarter of the population before Partition were Protestant. Counties Monaghan, Cavan and Donegal were and still are in the province of Ulster but after Partition, they became part of the Irish Free State.

[Darksecretz]

Never assume that Roman Catholic faith meant they were from what is now Eire. There’s a strong chance that they were but there’s a possibility that they were not.
Until 1921, all Ireland was one entity as far as civil registration and churches went. In what became NI, there were Roman Catholic residents as well as Protestant ones including all the variations - Church of Ireland, Presbyterian etc.
As an illustration of the opposite side of the coin - the assumption that Protestant persons did not live in the southern counties - almost a decade before Partition, in 1912 when the Ulster Covenant was signed in Belfast, several thousand southern unionist supporters travelled up from Dublin to sign. Another thousand odd people signed it in various now southern counties. In county Monaghan for instance a quarter of the population before Partition were Protestant. Counties Monaghan, Cavan and Donegal were and still are in the province of Ulster but after Partition, they became part of the Irish Free State.

Gee thanks GL made me feel whole lot better!

[GallowayLass]

Soz I have struggled woefully over the years with hubby’s lot from from the parishes around South Armagh and later Belfast. I have found everything from Church of Ireland to deeply Unionist Presbyterian and loads in between. In the parishes of Seagoe and Lower Seagoe there were all flavours of faith and the baptism of his 2xGGF ain’t in any that I have found so far.

[Darksecretz]

Soz I have struggled woefully over the years with hubby’s lot from from the parishes around South Armagh and later Belfast. I have found everything from Church of Ireland to deeply Unionist Presbyterian and loads in between. In the parishes of Seagoe and Lower Seagoe there were all flavours of faith and the baptism of his 2xGGF ain’t in any that I have found so far.

Lovely. What year are you looking for her bapt? mine is anywhere between 1842-1847. with either a Matthew or a James as a father.

[Janet]

That's certainly food for thought Janet The surname I have is Larkin/s sometimes its Larkin and others it's Larkins. I'm presuming that she was Catholic as she had her children christened so I'm guessing that she came from southern Ireland.. that is all I know. [and she gives her father as two different men on her marriage certs with different occupations too. [illegitimate?]

Ah well now Michael Larkin was one of the Manchester Martyrs who was supposed to have been hidden by my Great G Father but proving that one is very difficult!!

Have you seen this Larkin DNA Project? It is a long article showing the areas of Larkin in Ireland. I hope the URL is correct.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

If this is not correct then google search ,

Larkin DNA Project - Ancestral Parish Sampling on the Shannon River
Bradley T. Larkin.

The map suggests the name is prominent in Tipperary/Limerick and Offaly. I have certainly seen a number of Larkin in Tipperary. Look at Griffiths for Larkin names in those counties and see if any of the children match any of the names, remembering the Irish Naming pattern. Where did your Larkin live in England? Larkin is not one of the most common Irish names like Murphy!!

What year did she come to England or first cenus you found her?

Janet

PS The link does not see to work

[Janet]

Most of the Landowners in Ireland were Protestant as they seized the land back in the 1600's from the Irish people so there will be Protestants all over Ireland with a sprinkling of other faiths, Irish farmers were all tenant farmers until around 1900 a little before or a little later in most cases. Despite the landowners being mainly Protestant before Partition 80% of all Irish people were RC.

There is much research to be found in locating Land Archives which are not all in Ireland. Thurles Records are in Cardiff.

Janet

[Karamazov]

If you just have Ireland look closely at the surnames and see if you can locate that name in an area of Ireland for example Sullivan is closely associated with Cork County and in particular the Beara Peninsula. I realise this is not the easiest of ways but can be done with other names though I do not know all Irish names and their associated areas. For those with Tipperary ancestors the website Hidden Tipperary is brilliant and you can subscribe to get newsletters.

Janet

John Grenham's website is good for showing the prevalence and locations of surnames across the whole of the island of reland at various times. Not only that, but once you have got the results for one surname, you then have the option to search for it in conjunction with a second surname.

https://www.johngrenham.com/surnames/

He also has lots of other really useful tools - eg townland searches.

Christine

[Darksecretz]

Ah well now Michael Larkin was one of the Manchester Martyrs who was supposed to have been hidden by my Great G Father but proving that one is very difficult!!

Have you seen this Larkin DNA Project? It is a long article showing the areas of Larkin in Ireland. I hope the URL is correct.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/dow

If this is not correct then google search ,

Larkin DNA Project - Ancestral Parish Sampling on the Shannon River
Bradley T. Larkin.

The map suggests the name is prominent in Tipperary/Limerick and Offaly. I have certainly seen a number of Larkin in Tipperary. Look at Griffiths for Larkin names in those counties and see if any of the children match any of the names, remembering the Irish Naming pattern. Where did your Larkin live in England? Larkin is not one of the most common Irish names like Murphy!!

What year did she come to England or first census you found her?

Janet

PS The link does not see to work

Hi Janet,

The names she used for her father was James Larkins licenced victualler and then Matthew Larkins a labourer.

No I hadn't seen the DNA project but I will check it out, thank you.

I'm not sure that she used a naming pattern [not that I'd know it anyway]

I know she was in London in 1865 as that is when she marries my 2xgrt grandad, the earliest census I have found her on was 1871 when she relocated from London to Kirkby in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire. I have no idea whatsoever when she arrived in England or even what year she was actually born. It could be anywhere between 1842-1847. [as censi and death cert don't match] that said I only have her in two census. 1871/81. Nothing in papers about her obit/funeral, but there was an article about how she died. [and that doesn't really glean any info]

[Janet]

John Grenham's website is good for showing the prevalence and locations of surnames across the whole of the island of reland at various times. Not only that, but once you have got the results for one surname, you then have the option to search for it in conjunction with a second surname.

https://www.johngrenham.com/surnames/

He also has lots of other really useful tools - eg townland searches.

Christine

That brought back many memories of tracing Irish Ancestors pre internet when I bought John Grenham's book "Tracing Your Irish Ancestors" This book was considered the bible for Irish tracing back in the 1990's. I had not realised he had a website though should have done Knowing what his book was like. It does make sense for people like him to move with the times. Thanks for flagging that one up.

Janet

[Janet]

Hi Janet,

The names she used for her father was James Larkins licenced victualler and then Matthew Larkins a labourer.

No I hadn't seen the DNA project but I will check it out, thank you.

I'm not sure that she used a naming pattern [not that I'd know it anyway]

I know she was in London in 1865 as that is when she marries my 2xgrt grandad, the earliest census I have found her on was 1871 when she relocated from London to Kirkby in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire. I have no idea whatsoever when she arrived in England or even what year she was actually born. It could be anywhere between 1842-1847. [as censi and death cert don't match] that said I only have her in two census. 1871/81. Nothing in papers about her obit/funeral, but there was an article about how she died. [and that doesn't really glean any info]

I can feel your brick wall and it is very hard!!

However you are throwing up some interesting hints. Being born 1842/47 were very very lean Irish years, no just the famine which was only partly caused by the potato blight but also the aggravation of the landowners and their agents evicting starving people and huge animosity grew over all this and simmered from the mid 1840's through to the mid 1870's. Noting your date of marriage is 1865 and was father named James at that point? If so it makes sense to change his name to a more English Matthew, especially as the Manchester Martyrs debacle took place in 1867 with Michael Larkin being hanged for his crime in Manchester. Although your Larkins may not be connected, to have the same surname as someone so prominent would be enough for a subtle name change. There is a lot on the MM on the internet. I became very interested in this when I was passed some oral FH abut the MM being hidden from the authorities by my G Great G father

Both Larkin/Larkins are interchangeable in Ireland. I gope you find some luck with the DNA Project. It is suggested that the names are prominent in Limerick/Tipperary and Offaly. Tipperary and Limerick were real hotbeds of the Irish Brotherhood, the forerunner of Feniasl during the 1840's to 1870's and i suggest whn you get time to delve deeply into the history. My ancestors are Tipperary and Cork based with some Limerick and i dud a newspaper study from 1859 to 1876 and did a timeline of events and it was a fascinating study but now wish I had gone back to the 1840's but I have left it too late now.

Janet

[GallowayLass]

Lovely. What year are you looking for her bapt? mine is anywhere between 1842-1847. with either a Matthew or a James as a father.

I am looking for the baptism of Robert PORTER son of a David PORTER (farmer / weaver) of Clanrole / Clanroll / Clanrolla, Seagoe parish, County Armagh.

David married twice, firstly to a Ruth and secondly in 1863 to a Mary Jane DILWORTH. The only marriage in the parish of a David PORTER to a Ruth is 16 September 1842 David PORTER to Ruth HUGHES.

I will start a new thread as it’s complicated and might take this thread off at a tangent.

[Darksecretz]

I can feel your brick wall and it is very hard!!

However you are throwing up some interesting hints. Being born 1842/47 were very very lean Irish years, no just the famine which was only partly caused by the potato blight but also the aggravation of the landowners and their agents evicting starving people and huge animosity grew over all this and simmered from the mid 1840's through to the mid 1870's. Noting your date of marriage is 1865 and was father named James at that point? If so it makes sense to change his name to a more English Matthew, especially as the Manchester Martyrs debacle took place in 1867 with Michael Larkin being hanged for his crime in Manchester. Although your Larkins may not be connected, to have the same surname as someone so prominent would be enough for a subtle name change. There is a lot on the MM on the internet. I became very interested in this when I was passed some oral FH abut the MM being hidden from the authorities by my G Great G father

Both Larkin/Larkins are interchangeable in Ireland. I gope you find some luck with the DNA Project. It is suggested that the names are prominent in Limerick/Tipperary and Offaly. Tipperary and Limerick were real hotbeds of the Irish Brotherhood, the forerunner of Feniasl during the 1840's to 1870's and i suggest whn you get time to delve deeply into the history. My ancestors are Tipperary and Cork based with some Limerick and i dud a newspaper study from 1859 to 1876 and did a timeline of events and it was a fascinating study but now wish I had gone back to the 1840's but I have left it too late now.

Janet

Yes marriage in 1865 father named as James, but then changes to Matthew.
This information has been very eye-opening and does at least give me some hope that at some point I may well chip into this huge wall of mine. I will look at the MM and see if/what that throws up, I am very much out of my depth with Irish research and get very muddled very quickly.

Do you know of/if there were many clusters of Romany gypsies in Ireland in that time period? We were always told we had Romany in our line but I wondered if it came from the Irish line.

Many thanks for the pointers I have also just been looking at the naming patterns and nothing jumps out really.

1st son is William after her Husband
1st daughter is Adaline/Briggeda? that's if the bapt is right!.. rest of it doesn't match with what I have.

sorry kyle I seem to have run off course a little bit!

[Janet]

Gypsies were all over Ireland at this time but I know little about them. Try a google search for Tinkers Ireland.

If she put James as father on marriage cert in 1865 then I reckon you are going to be looking for a James Larkin/s in Ireland so at some time try Griffiths/Tithe Aplotments for a James Larkin/s in all those counties mentioned because even if she did not carry on the naming pattern her ancestors would have done in Ireland.

Apologies Kyle ror also taking up thread though I can never resist anything Irish, it is in my blood!!

Frustration at present as somebody from Dublin is contacting me at present asking me for information without giving me any information so we are sparring with each other at the moment ,though today I have told him bluntly that Family History Research is a two way information giving and gathering and I wait to see what he says now!!

Janet

[Darksecretz]

Gypsies were all over Ireland at this time but I know little about them. Try a google search for Tinkers Ireland.

If she put James as father on marriage cert in 1865 then I reckon you are going to be looking for a James Larkin/s in Ireland so at some time try Griffiths/Tithe Aplotments for a James Larkin/s in all those counties mentioned because even if she did not carry on the naming pattern her ancestors would have done in Ireland.

Apologies Kyle ror also taking up thread though I can never resist anything Irish, it is in my blood!!

Frustration at present as somebody from Dublin is contacting me at present asking me for information without giving me any information so we are sparring with each other at the moment ,though today I have told him bluntly that Family History Research is a two way information giving and gathering and I wait to see what he says now!!

Janet

wowzers sounds like you too have your hands full there Janet. Many thanks for the advice and when I get a quiet hour or so I will see if/what I can find.

and sorry again Kyle for hogging the topic!

[Janet]

Hm might be getting somewhere with latest frustration! If so this might be a breakthrough on my Irish History! He appeared to be wanting to make sure I was from the correct family but has now decided that I am!

DS Do let us know if you find anything.

Perhaps we should have a special sticky Irish thread where we could air our grievances/frustrations as well as successes?

Janet