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**Paulc** · 11-04-20, 16:04

Sounds like you might have struck gold there Lin

**Lin Fisher** · 11-04-20, 16:11

Thanks Paul, just felt I needed a bit of back up.

**Darksecretz** · 11-04-20, 16:19

Can you rub some of that luck off on me please? not uncommon for folks to hop over the border is it? and the names are almost spot on. We keep saying we are going to visit the Abbey but have never done so.. Presumably any other records would be @ Matlock Archives?

**Lin Fisher** · 11-04-20, 16:39

They would be at Matlock, I have looked on ancestry but only the transcription there. Joan is from Gedling/ Carlton where they had the children but will have to look for Isaac.

Sending you some good luck Julie.

**Darksecretz** · 11-04-20, 17:59

Originally posted by Lin Fisher View Post

They would be at Matlock, I have looked on ancestry but only the transcription there. Joan is from Gedling/ Carlton where they had the children but will have to look for Isaac.

Sending you some good luck Julie.

thank you Lin.. hoping it works

**Elaine** · 11-04-20, 20:11

Here's the Phillimore's one, backs up what is written on freereg

Our Free Record Collections

https://ukga.org/cgi-bin/browse.cgi?action=ViewRec&DB=8&bookID=21&pagecount=10&submit=Previous

List of our record collections containing books and data which are free to view online

**Darksecretz** · 11-04-20, 20:33

Originally posted by Elaine View Post

Here's the Phillimore's one, backs up what is written on freereg

https://ukga.org/cgi-bin/browse.cgi?...ubmit=Previous

good find Elaine!!

**Elaine** · 11-04-20, 20:49

bit of info about Dale Abbey

For Better, for Worse

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t3kiLAQxrnMC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=dale+abbey+marriages+clandestine&source=bl&ots=vFaunClGbD&sig=ACfU3U3qFvqFEU_IQigiiUOMFCkgdrjERw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwidocqAn-HoAhUNURUIHQIRBeEQ6AEwBXoECAsQNA#v=onepage&q=dale%20abbey%20marriages%20clandestine&f=false

Did you know that...The "contemporary" fashion of living together before marriage is far from new, and was frequently practiced in earlier days...Self-divorce, although never legal, was once a commonplace occurrence...Marriage is more popular today than in the Victorian era...Marriage in church was not compulsory in England and Wales until the mid-18th century. These are just a few of the fascinating, and often surprising, revelations in For Better, For Worse, the most comprehensive treatment to date of the history of marriage in a major Western society. Using fresh evidence from popular courtship and wedding rituals over four centuries, Gillis challenges the widely held belief that marriage has evolved from a cold, impersonal arrangement to a more affectionate, egalitarian form of companionship. The truth, argues Gillis, lies somewhere in between: conjugal love was never wholly absent in preindustrial times, while today's marriages are less companionate than is commonly believed. Gillis also illustrates, in rich detail, the perpetual tension between marital ideals and actual practices. This social history of the behavior and emotions of ordinary men and women radically revises our perspective on love and marriage in the past--and the present.

The parish registers of England

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=laHLDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=dale+abbey+marriages+clandestine&source=bl&ots=j1X5ETvTlr&sig=ACfU3U3pGvRBeRjz7LFH9ESkvOnJ5KjdVw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwidocqAn-HoAhUNURUIHQIRBeEQ6AEwBHoECAsQLg#v=onepage&q=dale%20abbey%20marriages%20clandestine&f=false

**Darksecretz** · 12-04-20, 07:19

Originally posted by Elaine View Post

bit of info about Dale Abbey

For Better, for Worse

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t3kiLAQxrnMC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=dale+abbey+marriages+clandestine&source=bl&ots=vFaunClGbD&sig=ACfU3U3qFvqFEU_IQigiiUOMFCkgdrjERw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwidocqAn-HoAhUNURUIHQIRBeEQ6AEwBXoECAsQNA#v=onepage&q=dale%20abbey%20marriages%20clandestine&f=false

Did you know that...The "contemporary" fashion of living together before marriage is far from new, and was frequently practiced in earlier days...Self-divorce, although never legal, was once a commonplace occurrence...Marriage is more popular today than in the Victorian era...Marriage in church was not compulsory in England and Wales until the mid-18th century. These are just a few of the fascinating, and often surprising, revelations in For Better, For Worse, the most comprehensive treatment to date of the history of marriage in a major Western society. Using fresh evidence from popular courtship and wedding rituals over four centuries, Gillis challenges the widely held belief that marriage has evolved from a cold, impersonal arrangement to a more affectionate, egalitarian form of companionship. The truth, argues Gillis, lies somewhere in between: conjugal love was never wholly absent in preindustrial times, while today's marriages are less companionate than is commonly believed. Gillis also illustrates, in rich detail, the perpetual tension between marital ideals and actual practices. This social history of the behavior and emotions of ordinary men and women radically revises our perspective on love and marriage in the past--and the present.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...estine&f=false

thank you x

**Lin Fisher** · 12-04-20, 10:26

Thanks Elaine. I still haven't looked up what the trial was all about will do it now.

I think it was probably me who put the photo on the 'places of worship' thread we did years ago.

There is a chapel at Babbington a few miles from here that did a lot of what was secret marriages, Clandestine sounds too harsh for it.

**Lin Fisher** · 12-04-20, 10:35

What I have about them is from Nottm Univerity archives. It was DServe Archives and I don't think they are on line now. The printout has 2009 on when I printed it.

I was a lot of the parish activities including marriage licences

Joan Alvey (Mrs) fl 1685/6 (formally Shelton , wife of Isaac Alvey of GEdling,
Offence. Clandestine or irregular marriage.

Also the same for Isaac but mention he is a labourer.

The bit about going to court which is a parish council meeting and very hard to read. The parish paid for them to go to Nottingham assizes. £1 3s 8d

**Lin Fisher** · 12-04-20, 10:43

Elaine, just read through the second bit you sent and had no idea it was the place to secretly get married. A sleepy little village and the church is tiny. I went with the walking group and we went back to the pub for refreshments and they let us borrow the key. There weren't even any lights on and so tiny

I also have a direct ancestor who married at fleet . It looks like all my ancestors were baddies!!.

**Elaine** · 12-04-20, 20:28

It's here

University of Nottingham Manuscripts and Special Collections Online Catalogue

http://mss-cat.nottingham.ac.uk/DServe/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Persons&id=NAI132627

**Lin Fisher** · 13-04-20, 09:49

Brilliant, luckily I printed it off but when looking for something else ages ago I couldn't get on.

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