Age problem...

[vera2013]

I've had a thought if she was born in the workhouse then there may be a record of the mother being admitted? [I'm thinking Katie being born in WH]

I did search for a workhouse birth for the Katie b to Ann Brown reg Kensington Town. Looked again last night but very little for Kensington and Chelsea w/house records that fit the birth period.

I browsed FMP for baptism of Kate/ie at St Francis of Assisi prior to Adaline (?Brigett' s) baptism. Couldn't see anything. The register starts around 1864 with a few earlier births recorded.

I recall my niece was not able to be christened with her parent's sole chosen name as it was not a Saint' s name so one had to be added

Is it Annie Larkin you are looking for or Annie Brown. The heat is getting to me.

Vera

[Darksecretz]

I did search for a workhouse birth for the Katie b to Ann Brown reg Kensington Town. Looked again last night but very little for Kensington and Chelsea w/house records that fit the birth period.

I browsed FMP for baptism of Kate/ie at St Francis of Assisi prior to Adaline (?Brigett' s) baptism. Couldn't see anything. The register starts around 1864 with a few earlier births recorded.

I recall my niece was not able to be christened with her parent's sole chosen name as it was not a Saint' s name so one had to be added

Is it Annie Larkin you are looking for or Annie Brown. The heat is getting to me.

Vera

That's the crux of the matter Vera, By that timeframe she was married so technically a Brown her mn is Larkin/s

I'm just about to eat so will have a look when I have eaten it has been hot today too.. I noticed that Kate Skelton has almost the same dob on the 1939 register... which kind of makes me wonder if I have already got the right birth.. if that is the case then I would think that she would have her baptised in a RC church.

[cbcarolyn]

Well I have been having a look and tracking Annie and I think that I have her marriage and after she married I can't seem to find her with Margaret in 1871 though I am pretty sure when I looked before I did find Margaret and Annie.

1881: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...07&usePUB=true

1885 marriage: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...49&pId=7755203

1901: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...07&usePUB=true
note the visitor.

1911: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...&rhSource=7814

I am confuddled - who is Annie - is this a sister?

I have Flora, Adaline and William

do you have a birth cert with William as father?

[Darksecretz]

I am confuddled - who is Annie - is this a sister?

I have Flora, Adaline and William

do you have a birth cert with William as father?

Annie/Kate/Margaret BROWN... in the census that you have quoted are another 'family' that people are saying is Kate that marries Richard Skelton. I was trying to prove/disprove the situation and trying to find Margaret in previous census. I did find a marriage for Annie that is kates sister. As I said I was trying to prove one way or the other to discount them. IGNORE ME I'M being dense!!!!! I can't see Kate coming up here from London to get married to a random man, when she is in LONDON for the 1881 census. just ignore me!

Where do you get Flora from?

I have birth certs for Adaline and William and they name william as the father is that what you meant?

[vera2013]

I'm not sure if this helps, maybe to eliminate

Marriage in Ancestry London Marriages

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...49&pId=7755205

20/07/1885 St Clement Nothing Hill

Catherine Brown 19 b 1866 Spinster 26 Blechynden Street Father William Bricklayer

Thomas Hughes 22 Bachelor Carman 29 B? Rd Father William Porter

Witnesses Chas Dyas, Wm Austin Atwood



Vera

[Darksecretz]

I'm not sure if this helps, maybe to eliminate

Marriage in Ancestry London Marriages

20/07/1885 St Clement Nothing Hill

Catherine Brown 19 b 1866 Spinster 26 Blechynden Street Father William Bricklayer

Thomas Hughes 22 Bachelor Carman 29 B? Rd Father William Porter

Witnesses Chas Dyas, Wm Austin Atwood

Vera

THAT is brilliant thank you Vera, this discounts her now as they lived in Blechynden st in 1881 and Annie her sister marries William Austin Attwood .

so she's now out of the frame. FAB!

I had been looking but not finding much, it's still hot and muggy here as well.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...49&pId=7755205

I'm 100% confident now that [Margaret/Annie/] Kate Brown are NOT connected to the marriage of Kate to Richard Skelton.

[cbcarolyn]

Where do you get Flora from?

no idea!

[Darksecretz]

no idea!

ahhh Flora Druscilla!..

[Darksecretz]

Oooh I see that Richard has been a bit naughty and that someone else had maliciously wounded Kate..

[vera2013]

So if I have got this correct, it is possible that the bc of Katie Brown b 1866 Kensington mother Ann Brown is your Katie who married a chap called Skelton. Then there is the ? of why Ann puts Brown as her mn when already married. Also Ann married to a serving Soldier so why a workhouse birth

There is then the Katie (Catherine) who married a chap called Hughes. She could also be a candidate for the Katie b 1866 Kensington w/house. Mother however is Margaret. Can see her sister Annie b Marylebone no mother's mn in GRO. Can't find them in the 1871 altho think Annie is in a Servants School. I had hoped that Katie would have survived until 1939 to at least eliminate her but it looks like she died 1838.

Need to find a baptism for your Katie. Can't believe as the child of an Irish mother she would have not been christened but then Ann Perkins did muddy the waters a bit getting married in an Anglican church

So back to square one but it cleared my head a bit. Hot, hot here. 27degrees indoors so not moving much.

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

I just need to recap in my head as was trying to remember everything, just to try and geography on timeline to fit with Kates birth

William Brown and Ann Larkins -
married twice
1865 [st Stephens, Paddington] [Kensington Reg Dist]
and again in
1869 The Royal Chapel, [in the Tower of London] [Whitechapel Reg Dist]

he is in army, he joins 20 Nov 1860, Grenadier Reg Of Guards service no 1829

children

Kate 1866 ish Bayswater mentioned on one census - rest are just London (Bayswater is in Paddington so fits with first marriage)

Flora Drusilla is she yours? BROWN, FLORA DRUSILLA MMN LARKINS
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 82

Adaline 1868 baptism in London for Brigedda 1869 Notting Hill

William Henry 1870 have Baptism Horseferry Road Westminster

the book of baptisms on FMP starts 1867,

problems....
Kate might not be in baptism as records not there,
she could have been born somewhere else esp as father in army?

[cbcarolyn]

I am not sure why I thought baptisms started 1867, there are some before. Will scroll through them later

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/reco...4-1873%2f00019

[Darksecretz]

There is then the Katie (Catherine) who married a chap called Hughes. She could also be a candidate for the Katie b 1866 Kensington w/house. Mother however is Margaret. Can see her sister Annie b Marylebone no mother's mn in GRO. Can't find them in the 1871 altho think Annie is in a Servants School. I had hoped that Katie would have survived until 1939 to at least eliminate her but it looks like she died 1838.

Need to find a baptism for your Katie. Can't believe as the child of an Irish mother she would have not been christened but then Ann Perkins did muddy the waters a bit getting married in an Anglican church

So back to square one but it cleared my head a bit. Hot, hot here. 27degrees indoors so not moving much.

Vera

So if I have got this correct, it is possible that the bc of Katie Brown b 1866 Kensington mother Ann Brown is your Katie who married a chap called Skelton. Then there is the ? of why Ann puts Brown as her mn when already married. Also Ann married to a serving Soldier so why a workhouse birth

I think that this could probably be right Vera, I was talking to hubby about it yesterday, we know that William and Ann marry in 1865 [but possibly without consent of Williams C/O] this then would mean that they couldn't be in married quarters? [as they weren't technically married in the eye of the guards]
This isn't the first time that Ann said her name was brown when it should have been larkins. [on Adalines b/c it says that mother is Ann Brown formerly Larkins] but this was 1868 and they married in 1869 second time around. which is why it confused me.

There is then the Katie (Catherine) who married a chap called Hughes. She could also be a candidate for the Katie b 1866 Kensington w/house. Mother however is Margaret. Can see her sister Annie b Marylebone no mother's mn in GRO. Can't find them in the 1871 altho think Annie is in a Servants School. I had hoped that Katie would have survived until 1939 to at least eliminate her but it looks like she died 1838.

I tried too last night and today to follow Margaret/Annie/Kate. BUT I couldn't spot them in 1871 [some trees have this Kate marrying Richard Skelton]and give Margarets MN as Griffiths but give Annies father as William Brown [but not a soldier OR a FWK] I'm pretty certain that this kate isn't connected to Richard Skelton at all, and that others who have this info in their trees are wrong as they have presumed and not got the relevant info to back it up!..

I'm just trying to make sure that I have all the facts right, I can't see Kate with mother Margaret being in London for 1881 cens then coming up to Nottingham and marrying then moving to Sheffield. [and then Margaret and Annie still be in London getting married etc..] It just doesn't sit right.

Carolyn I'm getting ready to reply to you next..

[Darksecretz]

I just need to recap in my head as was trying to remember everything, just to try and geography on timeline to fit with Kates birth

William Brown and Ann Larkins -
married twice
1865 [st Stephens, Paddington] [Kensington Reg Dist]
and again in
1869 The Royal Chapel, [in the Tower of London] [Whitechapel Reg Dist]

he is in army, he joins 20 Nov 1860, Grenadier Reg Of Guards service no 1829

children

Kate 1866 ish Bayswater mentioned on one census - rest are just London (Bayswater is in Paddington so fits with first marriage)

Flora Drusilla is she yours? BROWN, FLORA DRUSILLA MMN LARKINS
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 82

Adaline 1868 baptism in London for Brigedda 1869 Notting Hill

William Henry 1870 have Baptism Horseferry Road Westminster

the book of baptisms on FMP starts 1867,

problems....Kate might not be in baptism as records not there,
she could have been born somewhere else esp as father in army?

Flora Drusilla is she yours? BROWN, FLORA DRUSILLA MMN LARKINS
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 82

I'm not sure that Flora Drusilla is mine, I thought that the time frame was wrong with Adaline being born the same year.
I can't even find FD in the census let alone anywhere else!

William Brown and Ann Larkins -
married twice
1865 [st Stephens, Paddington] [Kensington Reg Dist]
and again in
1869 The Royal Chapel, [in the Tower of London] [Whitechapel Reg Dist]

he is in army, he joins 20 Nov 1860, Grenadier Reg Of Guards service no 1829

yep this is correct.

Kate 1866 ish Bayswater mentioned on one census - rest are just London (Bayswater is in Paddington so fits with first marriage)
Adaline 1868 baptism in London for Brigedda 1869 Notting Hill
William Henry 1870 have Baptism Horseferry Road Westminster

yes this is right.

Kate might not be in baptism as records not there,
she could have been born somewhere else esp as father in army?

She could have been born elsewhere yes but I would have expected to see an entry in the birth index with MMN of Larkins and according to Williams records he wasn't posted anywhere whilst in service. I would think that she would be bapt somewhere as Adaline and William were. If for some reason Kate wasn't registered at birth, [[wasn't compulsory until 1875]] then perhaps she was just baptised instead?

I didn't realise that Catherine, Adelaide/Adeline and Florence are all Catholic Female Saints.. you learn something new everyday!

[Darksecretz]

I'm wondering now IF Flora can be found in a baptism, I am currently looking in the regular baptisms as I don't have access to the RC bapts on FMP. So I am looking on ancestry.

[vera2013]

I'm looking at those FMP RC bap s to double check and eliminate that Katie (Catherine) b of Margaret Brown and ? Wm altho I doubt they are RC. Looking at same time any other Brown including post Adaline. Not seen a Flora Drusella yet

Vera

[Darksecretz]

I'm looking at those FMP RC bap s to double check and eliminate that Katie (Catherine) b of Margaret Brown and ? Wm altho I doubt they are RC. Looking at same time any other Brown including post Adaline. Not seen a Flora Drusella yet

Vera

Thank you Vera, I've been looking on Ancestry and Familysearch but nothing is coming up.

Flora drusilla could be anytime from 1867-1870 for a bapt

[cbcarolyn]

looked on FMP for any baptisms with William and latin spelling, larkins, Ann. Flora Drusilla, nada, other than the ones I found originally.

I think the area that they were living would mean Katie would be Westminster and there seems to be a lot of books there for that time. Guess Katie could be missing from index. Drusilla never seems to appear ever again - just on a birth. Lots of Flora's but hard to tell if she would be the right one.

[Darksecretz]

I'm looking at those FMP RC bap s to double check and eliminate that Katie (Catherine) b of Margaret Brown and ? Wm altho I doubt they are RC. Looking at same time any other Brown including post Adaline. Not seen a Flora Drusella yet
Vera

looked on FMP for any baptisms with William and latin spelling, larkins, Ann. Flora Drusilla, nada, other than the ones I found originally.
I think the area that they were living would mean Katie would be Westminster and there seems to be a lot of books there for that time. Guess Katie could be missing from index. Drusilla never seems to appear ever again - just on a birth. Lots of Flora's but hard to tell if she would be the right one.

Thanks ladies, a thought did cross my mind though.. is Flora Katie?

[cbcarolyn]

Thanks ladies, a thought did cross my mind though.. is Flora Katie?

guess anything is possible

it does seem a coincidence that the parents names match, when there are no others in the area, like she is theirs. born in December reg in January, can squeeze her in before the next child, can see Adaline birth is 3 Sept on baptism, very tight dates.

I can't see any likely deaths for Flora before 1871, assuming she would be on census and found by now?

hmm maybe worth the investment on the BC?