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Good afternoon to you all. Are there any brickwall demolision enthusiasts out there??

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  • Good afternoon to you all. Are there any brickwall demolision enthusiasts out there??

    Hi all,

    My name is Paul Cressingham, and I'm a newbie to this site.

    Some of you may have seen this thread on other sites before, but I have a brickwall which I need demolishing and despite my best efforts it remains standing, so I'm looking for expert wielders of the sledgehammer.

    Quartermaster & Hon. Lt.-Col. Hugh Montrein Cressingham D.S.O., D.C.M. 2nd Btn. Bedfordshire Reg't. 1863? - 1946

    Allegedly born in 31st March 1863
    EITHER:
    According to his military attestation papers in Brighton, Sussex.
    OR
    According to his regimental obituary as the son of a farmer in Hurstpierpoint, Sussex.

    I have so much information on him, his wife and daughter following his attestation into the Bedfordshire Reg't. 31st March 1882. Full military file, medal cards, marriage certificate, death certificate, census entries 1901 & 1911, photographs of him and one of his daughter Lylie, articles about him in his regimental magazine, the location of his grave to name but the most important.

    BUT; prior to 31st March 1882... Nothing... The man is a ghost, dropped off outside Kempston Barracks by some passing spaceship.

    His alleged father (either Robert or Hugh Robert Cressingham) is even worse.., No trace of him at all EVER... and no mention anywhere of his mother's name.

    I have tried everything I can think of... All to no avail, Hugh remains steadfastly a mystery, hiding behind his indestructable brickwall.

    Is there anyone out there that would like to give that wall a couple of whacks???

    Thanks in advance and best regards

    Paul...
    Last edited by Cressy; 08-11-12, 16:39.

  • #2
    Is the Cressingham family tree on Ancestry yours ?

    by the way welcome to the site.

    Jan x
    Last edited by Janet H.; 07-11-12, 15:24.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Paul,

      on the marriage certificate, were the witness' family members at all? do you know if Hugh had any siblings at all.?

      welcome to the forum by the way :smilee:
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Janet, Hi Darksecretz.

        Thanks for your welcomes.. I'm glad to be here..

        Yes Janet, the Cressingham family trees on Ancestry are me. When Hugh refused to fall naturally into place in the main one (we Cressinghams are very thin on the ground, and I naturally assumed that he would 'slot in seamlessly' at some stage) Then I started Cressingham2 with Hugh as the starting point just to see if working outwards from the man himself would lead me to the clues I needed; Alas no..........

        Hi again Darksecretz. Hugh and Eliza married in Plymouth, Devon 24th Oct 1892 where he was based at the time. Eliza (nee Roisetter) was born and raised there. The witnesses are a J. Costin and W. (or M.) Cox, neither of who's surnames appear in the rest of the family research that I have completed. So I assume that they were friends or colleagues of the bride or groom.... As for siblings? There are none that I have been able to find. Hugh, his wife Eliza and their daughter Lylie are a tight and very insular group.. Even down to Lylie living with her parents after she wed, her husband joining them in the family home on his return from Ghana, (where he was a rubber planter) Lylie and Lucius taking over the family home after Hugh and Eliza's deaths; and Lylie's son Hugh taking over that same family home after his parents deaths.... So I'm guessing there were no other family claims on the estates...

        Best regards

        Paul...................

        Comment


        • #5
          Paul,

          did Hugh leave a will at all? any clues on that?
          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

          Comment


          • #6
            He does appear to have come out of nowhere.

            In cases like this, I often like to look at the middle name for clues ... and Montrein doesn't appear in any census at all as far as I can see ...But, in 1881 there is a Walter Montrion, a "Maj General Indian Army" (ancestry transcription has it as Montrison) living with his wife Fanny and children in Brighton.

            In 1861 there is a Caroline Montrion, a 36 yr old widow, living in Brighton, she has a 19yr old step-daughter shown as born in Bombay, so the family is known in Sussex and also has Indian connections. The family seems to disappear again by 1871 ...gone back to India maybe ?

            I wonder, given the choice of a military life, whether there is a connection (maybe illegitimately) there somewhere to your Hugh

            Have you checked the Brighton and Hurstpierpoint baptism registers for any likely illegitimate children around 1863 ?
            Last edited by AntonyM; 07-11-12, 16:14.
            Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
            Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

            Comment


            • #7
              Is this his officers file ref? Do you have it? If so, I assume no baptism cert included (often are, in officers files)

              WO 374/16528

              Is a next of kin given on his original attestation - i.e. before he was married?
              The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
              Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

              Comment


              • #8
                as there are indian connections have you tried looking at FIBIS? at all http://www.new.fibis.org/
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi again Darksecretz.

                  He appears in the probate calendar in 1946, with the rather small estate of £650 and Eliza as the sole beneficiary, added to the fact the only other asset, the house, stayed within that tight family unit I've never bothered to pursue an actual will. Within Hugh's military file there is a lot of correspondence regarding the poor financial state of the family following firstly Hugh's retirement and then worse still following his death. No mention of any other family responsibilities or finacial help in the forms that were filled out..

                  Regards

                  Paul....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    why was he otherwise known as Hugh of Dunedin lee-on-solent? [lived on a boat?] might be worthwhile getting this will, he may have mentioned other family.
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Annswabey,

                      Thanks for your response. Yes WO 374/16528 is his file... All 76 pages of it, and unfortunately there are no real clues in there, certainly no baptism certificate.. He attested as a private soldier, allegedly on his 19th birthday as a 5' 11'1/2" 140 lb, 33" chest measurement "special enlistment". giving his place of birth as Brighton Sussex and Next of kin as his father Robert Cressingham...
                      I do wonder whether he lied about his age, because I would have thought a 19 year old would have basically stopped growing (wouldn't he??) but within 3 years he is noted for his stature and physique as a serjeant 6' 4" with a 50" chest measurement.
                      To add a certain provenance to this growth in stature just one of the many anecdotes(taken directly from his Regimental obituary) regarding Hugh and his size and strength is as follows: As a young Serjeant he was full of life and vivacity. It is recorded that in India he shocked his elders by entering the Serjeants' Mess with a young donkey under his arm.

                      Quite a growth spurt!!!!

                      Best regards

                      Paul.........

                      Last edited by Cressy; 07-11-12, 16:33.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        When was he first appointed an honorary officer?

                        Quite possible that he lied about his age - plenty did!

                        Was there an address for his father?
                        The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                        Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi again Darksecretz...

                          Aaaahhhhhh you have found one of the many oddities about Hugh... "Hugh of Dunedin", he also uses that strange form of address in a couple of later letters to the war office.

                          His retirement address was: -
                          Dunedin
                          Swanage Road
                          Lee-on-the-Solent.

                          I hasten to add that he didn't name the house. I've researched the address back to the 1911 census when it was owned by someone else and was named
                          Dunedin at that time.

                          Thanks for your advice, I shall look for a will, just in case.

                          regards

                          Paul..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi again Annswabey,

                            His first honorary commission was Quarter Master & Hon Lt. 14th Feb 1903, followed by: -
                            Hon. Captain 14th Feb 1913
                            Hon. Major 1st Jan 1917
                            Hon Lt. Col. Jan 1919

                            No, sorry, no addresses for his family.

                            Regards

                            Paul.....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi again Darksecretz,

                              Yep. I've tried FIBIS, there's a big advantage to having an unusual name, you never have to trawl through hundreds of records. No Cressinghams on FIBIS at all.

                              Regards

                              Paul.......

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I suppose you have looked at Crossingham too?

                                this is the probate entry:

                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi AntonyM,

                                  I came across the Montrions myself the other week and had bookmarked them for a second look, as there are NO Montreins within the UK records system at all, that I could find...
                                  I think I have pretty much worn out Hurstpierpoint records and connection. The village was only small in that period of time and I have individually browsed the original census documents on-line for 1861, 71 and 81 looking for male children born 1860 - 1866 where there is no father in the household, or the surname might be misconstrued as Cressingham or Montrein, or with the given name of Hugh... All to no avail, the likely candidates still appear in censuses during the period that I have records for Hugh... Brighton is a much larger project. I've made a start but it is very daunting. I've started on the Preston area, because of Hugh's military life choice. I know the 9th Lancers were stationed there during the time of Hugh's conception and birth, but again no luck so far, but If you know of an easier way???

                                  Thanks and best regards

                                  Paul....

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hi again Darksecretz.

                                    Cressinghams, Crossinghams, Crossinggams, Crossinggums, Crassinghams et al.

                                    These two sisters, my 2nd great aunts (of an age contemporary with Hugh) are good examples of a few of the many name variations, and the confusion it causes: -


                                    Esther Gertrude
                                    Born Dec 1864, surname Crossinggum
                                    Christened 1865, surname Crossinggam

                                    1871 census, Esther G Crossingham
                                    1881 census, Esther G Cressingham
                                    Married 1889, Esther G Cressingham


                                    Eliza Jane
                                    Born June 1861, surname Crossinggum
                                    Christened June 1861, surname Crossingum
                                    1871 census, Eliza J Crossingham
                                    1881 census, Eliza J Cressingham
                                    Died 1885, Eliza Jane Cressingham


                                    I guess it's all down to transcribing rather flowery Victorian hand writing, and the transcriber's best guess as to what they're seeing.
                                    Whatever the reason they've certainly kept these ageing grey cells nimble..


                                    Different branches of the family (including some siblings) have carried forward these differing forms of the surname, so there is a good chance we are all related somewhere down the line.

                                    Regards

                                    Paul...

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Of no help whatsoever...males do not stop growing until they are in their late 20s. If they have had poor nutrition in childhood and then have good food in young adulthood, they will then grow to their full potential before the long bones seal at the ends, preventing further (height) growth.

                                      Or......the full grown one was an impostor!

                                      OC

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hi Olde Crone Holden,

                                        No, no, no. You've been loads of help actually, thanks. It's dispelled a misconception that we all stop growing in our late teens that I've held to be true. So that in itself makes me a bit more confident about Hugh's age.

                                        very best regards

                                        Paul...

                                        Comment

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