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  • Montague Gabriel

    Please can anyone help. Can see Montague's wife Martha ln the 1851 census in the Parish of St Clement Danes. She is a widow living with her children, the eldest of whom Loius in 28.

    Please could somebody guide me to somewhere in the Jewish records where I can hopefully discover Montague/Mordechai and Martha's wedding and find out her maiden name.

    Di

  • #2
    It's going to be difficult. Not many Jewish records are on line and indeed, there was no requirement for a Jewish marriage to be recorded anywhere pre registration (though many were). It is also quite difficult for non Jewish people to get access to synagogue records, which will be in Hebrew anyway, you need an intermediary (you may find someone on Jewishgen).

    Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

    OC

    Try the Jewishgen site for starters.

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    • #3
      Thanks

      Di

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      • #4
        The Beth Din site has some marriages listed and if you email them may be able to help
        Last edited by Guest; 02-11-12, 13:33.

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        • #5
          1851 in St Clement Danes
          4, Holywell Street, St Clement

          1851 Census
          GABRIEL, Martha
          STRAND, Middlesex
          HO107 piece 1511 folio 308 page 32

          with Louis, Levy, Michael and Charlotte
          Elaine

          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you know when Martha died? If she was buried in the faith then there is a good chance her father's name will be on the burial record.

            If you don't get anywhere with any of those suggestions, you may consider buying the marriage cert of one of the children as they probably married in the same synagogue that their parents attended. That would be a place to start looking to see if the marriage was recorded of Mordecai and Martha (but, um, Martha's not a Jewish name and she probably had another, Jewish name....)

            OC

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            • #7
              this might be her death;

              Name: Martha Gabriel
              Estimated Birth Year: abt 1790
              Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1866
              Age at Death: 76
              Registration district: Strand
              Inferred County: London
              Volume: 1b
              Page: 408
              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

              Comment


              • #8
                this is the 1851: [Ancestry]

                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #9
                  according to the 1841 census Martha was not born in county... [and sorry Di, I misread your initial post and thought you couldn't find her in 1851!]
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Me too Julie
                    Elaine

                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                      Do you know when Martha died? If she was buried in the faith then there is a good chance her father's name will be on the burial record.

                      If you don't get anywhere with any of those suggestions, you may consider buying the marriage cert of one of the children as they probably married in the same synagogue that their parents attended. That would be a place to start looking to see if the marriage was recorded of Mordecai and Martha (but, um, Martha's not a Jewish name and she probably had another, Jewish name....)

                      OC
                      There must be a Jewish version of Martha, because a woman of that name appears in the NT as a sister of a Mary. Mary tends to be Miriam, I think, but I'm not sure about Martha.

                      Christine
                      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Christine

                        Hebrews don't use the New Testament though, do they?

                        EDIT - Oooh, I beg everyone's pardon! Martha IS a Jewish name and it means "bitter". Well I never knew that!

                        OC
                        Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 05-11-12, 22:37.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                          Christine

                          Hebrews don't use the New Testament though, do they?

                          OC
                          No, but the accounts suggest that the people named were Jewish. The NT names are likely to be Greek or Aramaic versions of whatever the original names were... or English versions of the Greek/Aramaic versions of the original names!

                          Christine
                          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you for your edit, OC. I always find that sort of thing interesting.

                            It also suggests that 'Martha' and 'Mary', in the Gospel story about whether you show care for guests better by sitting with them to entertain them, or by doing the background stuff that makes them comfortable and feeds them, might be 'model' names: Mary being the one who sits with the guest, and Martha being the one who moans (? is bitter) about being left to do the dull bits.

                            Christine

                            SORRY! just realised we've drifted a bit off topic, however interesting!
                            Last edited by Christine in Herts; 06-11-12, 11:05.
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is useful http://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/1851/introduction.htm
                              There is a Hebrew name of Marta, I think that's sometimes used for Martha. http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/w...!2!!3!~11~US~~
                              Last edited by naomiatt; 11-03-13, 20:52.

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