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Polish Baptism Confusion

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  • Polish Baptism Confusion

    Looking through what little we have of my great-grandfather's papers, I noticed some strange things.

    First document is his Certificate of Naturalization. It's dated Nov. 28, 1922 and indicates that he previously was a subject of Austria Hungary. That makes sense, because, from other documents, it appears he is from Besko, Poland. When my great-grandfather (Paul) was born, Besko would have been in the Galicia region of A-H.

    What's confusing to me is the other main document we have, which is his "testimonium ortus & baptismi," or record of baptism. It has "Republica: Polonia" at the top, which, I assume, means Poland. I know that after WWI, western Galicia became part of the restored Republic of Poland. But the Cert. of Nat. has Paul's age in 1922 as 27. Which means that, if he was baptized as a baby, as most Catholics are, he would have been baptized pre-1900 and when Besko still was part of A-H. Also, the baptism record is dated Aprilis 30, 1928.

    I guess my main question(s) are why would he have a Polish certificate of baptism issued nearly 6 years after his U.S. naturalization? Would he have needed it to get married in a Catholic church in the U.S.? His oldest son was born in 1929, so the timing would be right for that.

    Thanks in advance,
    Seán

  • #2
    Welcome Sean,

    It is probably the reason for the baptism record as I was required to get one when marrying into the Catholic church from another religion here in the UK

    Edna

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    • #3
      I have heard of one couple who ended up getting married several times, because records were lost due to wartime events, and the priest required evidence!

      Christine
      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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      • #4
        It sounds as tho the baptism occurred earlier in his life (e.g., as an infant), and this was a copy of his baptismal record that was created in 1929? Doesn't it also have the date of baptism?

        Where in the US did he marry & where were his children born? Familysearch currently has a project indexing Catholic records from Chicago, but I'm sure the catalog has many other US Catholic records from the time period you're talking. You could also consider contacting the church where they married to see what records they have.

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        • #5
          i would think he ordered a copy of his baptism after poland acquired besko, and that's why poland was on the cert. because at the time of issue, besko was part of poland.

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          • #6
            I would be VERY interested to know how I can obtain a record of baptism from the Galicia region ...I presume you are aware that Poland and Ukraine borders swapped ownership several times ...I have Osatp Kabluckyj ( my wifes father ) born in Rohatyn , Ukraine 1927...which was Rogatyn when it was in Poland ....and would like to know where I should apply for his baptism record...Ostap fought with the German Regiments 14th Waffen SS Galicia in Italy and came to England in 1947 as a prisoner of war...although we know his date of birth , we would like positive proof of his parents ....if you can help, I would appreciate this...thanks
            allan
            Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
            oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
            adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
            merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
            coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

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            • #7
              Originally posted by garstonite View Post
              I would be VERY interested to know how I can obtain a record of baptism from the Galicia region ...I presume you are aware that Poland and Ukraine borders swapped ownership several times ...I have Osatp Kabluckyj ( my wifes father ) born in Rohatyn , Ukraine 1927...which was Rogatyn when it was in Poland ....and would like to know where I should apply for his baptism record...Ostap fought with the German Regiments 14th Waffen SS Galicia in Italy and came to England in 1947 as a prisoner of war...although we know his date of birth , we would like positive proof of his parents ....if you can help, I would appreciate this...thanks
              allan
              Mult problems, beginning with foreign language. I have no idea what resources may exist in his place of origin, but familysearch's catalog seems to have some records that might pertain. This is one example, but you can play with the catalog to see if there's more there. Films can be loaned to your nearest FHC for a small fee. Another problem would be to determine which denomination to pursue.


              Anyone have knowledge of German enlistment records?

              Or British naturalization records?
              Last edited by PhotoFamily; 30-10-12, 14:11.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                Mult problems, beginning with foreign language. I have no idea what resources may exist in his place of origin, but familysearch's catalog seems to have some records that might pertain. This is one example, but you can play with the catalog to see if there's more there. Films can be loaned to your nearest FHC for a small fee. Another problem would be to determine which denomination to pursue.
                https://www.familysearch.org/search/...bjectId=916899

                Anyone have knowledge of German enlistment records?

                Or British naturalization records?
                http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/r...ed-britons.htm Naturalisation Records

                Edna

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                • #9


                  also check out Cyndis List for German Records,

                  Edna

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                  • #10
                    I'm not so sure that Polonia refers to Poland the country in this case, I think it MAY refer to the Polish diaspora, which was called Polonia. In which case, the baptism cert might be just a formal recognition that he had been baptised at birth or shortly after, issued by the priest who knew him in the diaspora.

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      I didn't notice it at first b/c it was written out, not numerical, but it appears to be 1894. He got married in Pennsylvania, presumably Pittsburgh. His Naturalization Cert. states his residence as Jennette, PA (Westmoreland County), which is where my family is from. But the Westmoreland County marriage record search doesn't have them in it (http://westmorelandweb400.us:8088/EGSPublicAccess.htm). I know he or my great-grandmother had family in Pittsburgh (Allegheny County), so they might have been married there. I'm waiting to get the search result in the mail from Allegheny County.

                      My grandfather's obituary said he was born in Greensburg, PA (seat and largest city of West. Co.).

                      I could be wrong, but it doesn't look like Besko was part of Ukraine post-WWI. It seems to be too far west.

                      And I think the Polonia does refer to the country of Poland. After/near that on the certificate are county and parish etc. names that match Besko (Lwów Voivodeship [pre-1939], Sanok, etc).

                      Thank you all for the help and interest, too!

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