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Lesson learnt.....the hard way

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  • Lesson learnt.....the hard way

    To make a very long story short I recently had my family tree crumble in a matter of minutes. In October of last year I finally made the break through that other members of my family had failed to do; namely, I discovered the full name of my great grandfather. Once I had this name I was off to the races and was soon pushing the family line back to the middle 1700's in Cornwall. Needless to say I was beyond excited, and that's where I made my fatal mistake. I think I stopped being objective and testing each "fact" I discovered. When the last bit of the 1911 census was uploaded ( ie The Channel Islands ) there was my "great grandfather " alive and well and living on Guernsey; when he actually died in 1896. So, almost 12 months of research down the drain.

    But my main reason for posting this tragedy is that I wasn't the only one to make the same mistake. I arrived at my great grandfathers full name through the assistance of others ( unknown to me ) on Ancestry; we all had bits and pieces of information and they all seemed to fit once we "found" each other. At the time I believed that we were all being very careful and that we had struck paydirt. Not so. As i mentioned it is a very long story but the long and short of it is this; you must have proof to back up your findings. Certificates, parish records, probate records, etc etc. In my case the proving documents are what did me in.

    So, I'm back to square one. Lesson learnt. Any one know of a Henry Mellor who died in 1896 in Lancashire?

  • #2
    You could give some details rjm and see what some of the clever people on here can discover for you? Things like who/when/where he married and what the fathers name and occupation was on the marriage cert. Also the names of the witnesses etc.
    Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 22-10-12, 08:46.
    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sorry for your loss - even if they weren't your kin, I'm sure you felt attached to them.

      Yes, more detail please

      Comment


      • #4
        yes you chouls give details of your great grandfather, and those of the man who wasn't him, so people can see where you went wrong, and help you out.

        Comment


        • #5
          I would think most of the Members here have been down that road. If it was easy, it wouldnt be any fun. There are so many experienced Researchers here all 'dying' to help so post the detail and see what they can find.

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh yes, been there, done that. One of my cousins actually keeps the long line of {wrong) family which he researched as a sieline on his tree as he says he still feels like he is related to them, and I have become good friends with someone who shared a lot of research with me before we found our families weren't related after all.
            Judith passed away in October 2018

            Comment


            • #7
              Happened to me only yesterday.

              OH was sent some information for his family and alot was '??' so off we merrily went on a hunt.

              Nine hours later we believed we had sorted out which of two individuals, named the same and born within a year of each other in the same area, was our man. This included drawing up a long spreadsheet comparing not only BMDs but also electoral rolls, school registers, probate entries, family connections and anything else we could possibly think off.

              We sent our findings to the contact and are firmly told the ancestor is the other man as they have a letter all about it.....Wish we had been sent that in the first place but the good news is that a copy is to follow.

              The problem is that our research passed all the 'tests' we could throw at it so I can't wait to see where we have gone wrong.

              Luckily, even if we are wrong as to that particular line, the research isn't wasted as they appear to be cousins. We can't get birth certs as they were both born abroad (not BS) but will probably have to invest in two marriage certs if the 'letter' doesn't clarify it all.

              Chris
              Avatar....My darling mum, Irene June Robinson nee Pearson 1931-2019.

              'Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule' Charles Dickens, Great Expectations.

              Comment


              • #8
                What I know for sure is this 1) My great grandfather was named Henry Mellor and died in Manchester in late May or early June 1896. I have the bill that was sent to his widow.
                2) He was "married" to a woman named Kate Raffe ( 1866-1940 ) and they had 5 sons: Wallace, Leo, Cyril, Buckley and Dudley. I used quotation marks because there are family stories that they were not legally married. I have
                found the family on the 1891 census. Kate remarried to a man named William Henry Gosling in 1907.
                3) The Henry Mellor I seek is NOT Henry Toombs Mellor.
                4) It appears that Henry and Kate spent the bulk of their lives in Lancs and surrounding areas.
                5) To date I cannot find Henry's birth records, baptism records, marriage record, or ant mention of his middle name
                6) There is some indication that he was a pinafore manufacturer.

                I'm sure I've forgotten something but this is what I know, in a nutshell. If anyone cares to give it the old college try I would be grateful. Even a new perspective or approach would help greatly. Thanks.

                Comment


                • #9
                  rjm, you might want to ask for a new thread to be started for Henry Mellor.

                  For the record, here he is with his family in 1891:


                  1891 Census
                  SALFORD, Lancashire
                  RG12 piece 3215 folio 41 page 29
                  2, Great George Street, Salford
                  Henry Mellor Head Married 41 Pinafore manufacturer London
                  Kate Wife Married 24 London
                  Wallace H Son 5 Scholar Liverpool Lancashire
                  Leo S Son 3 Manchester Lancashire
                  Cyril L Son 1 Manchester Lancashire
                  Buckley O Son 1 month Manchester Lancashire
                  Frank Raffe Boarder Single 23 Grocers Assistant London
                  Harriett Thorne Servant Single 14 Dom. Servant New Brighton Cheshire


                  Frank Raffe is presumably Kate's brother.

                  I couldn't find any baptisms for the children so far.
                  Last edited by Elizabeth Herts; 28-10-12, 08:28.
                  Elizabeth
                  Research Interests:
                  England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                  Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Kate with some of the children in 1901:

                    1901 Census
                    BARTON UPON IRWELL, Lancashire
                    RG13 piece 3656 folio 35 page 1
                    1, Worsley Road Market Place, Swinton
                    Kate Mellor Head Widow 32 Underclothing manufacturer Croydon Surrey
                    Wallace Son 15 Office Boy Manchester Ardwick
                    Buckley Son 10 Manchester Salford
                    Dudley Son 8 Manchester Salford
                    Last edited by Elizabeth Herts; 28-10-12, 08:29.
                    Elizabeth
                    Research Interests:
                    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm throwing this birth in as Henry is given as being born in London:

                      Name: MELLOR, Henry William

                      Registration district: Bethnal Green
                      County: London
                      Year of registration: 1848
                      Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
                      Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
                      Volume no: 2
                      Page no: 60


                      We need to find this Henry Mellor in the censuses to see if they are one and the same man.
                      Elizabeth
                      Research Interests:
                      England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                      Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here is the Henry Mellor born in 1848 in 1851:

                        1851 Census

                        BETHNAL GREEN, Middlesex
                        HO107 piece 1541 folio 315 page 9
                        14, Hereford Street, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets
                        Henry Mellor Head Married 29 Carpenter Kingston Surrey
                        Mary Wife Married 30 Weaveress (Silk) Bethnal Green Middlesex
                        Eliza Daughter 9 Scholar Middlesex
                        Henry W Son 2 Middlesex
                        William Son 3 months Middlesex
                        Elizabeth
                        Research Interests:
                        England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                        Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Elizabeth Herts View Post
                          I'm throwing this birth in as Henry is given as being born in London:

                          Name: MELLOR, Henry William

                          Registration district: Bethnal Green
                          County: London
                          Year of registration: 1848
                          Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
                          Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
                          Volume no: 2
                          Page no: 60


                          We need to find this Henry Mellor in the censuses to see if they are one and the same man.
                          Originally posted by Elizabeth Herts View Post
                          Here is the Henry Mellor born in 1848 in 1851:

                          1851 Census

                          BETHNAL GREEN, Middlesex
                          HO107 piece 1541 folio 315 page 9
                          14, Hereford Street, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets
                          Henry Mellor Head Married 29 Carpenter Kingston Surrey
                          Mary Wife Married 30 Weaveress (Silk) Bethnal Green Middlesex
                          Eliza Daughter 9 Scholar Middlesex
                          Henry W Son 2 Middlesex
                          William Son 3 months Middlesex
                          Ancestry has a Baptism for this one in July 1848, in Shoreditch. The actual DoB is in the register's margin.


                          Or you could go to the London Metropolitan Archives, and ask for: Shoreditch St Leonard, Register of Baptism, P91/LEN/A/01/Ms 7496, Item 55

                          There are other baptisms on Ancestry, for this family.
                          Last edited by Christine in Herts; 29-10-12, 16:04.
                          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The one you do NOT want is possibly part of the family arising from the marriage of:
                            Mary TOOMBS d/o Henry
                            and Alfred MELLOR s/o William
                            in 1845 in Lambeth

                            Christine
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Christine in Herts View Post
                              Ancestry has a Baptism for this one in July 1848, in Shoreditch. The actual DoB is in the register's margin.


                              Or you could go to the London Metropolitan Archives, and ask for: Shoreditch St Leonard, Register of Baptism, P91/LEN/A/01/Ms 7496, Item 55

                              There are other baptisms on Ancestry, for this family.
                              Thanks Christine, I'll have a look there. According to some family stories that have been handed down it would seem that Henry and his wife Kate Raffe didn't worry too much about the niceties of marriage and baptism. My grandmother ( son # 5 Dudley's wife ) was horrified when a marriage certificate could not be produced. There are many family stories about Henry's wife, Kate Raffe, and she does seem to have been her own woman.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Elizabeth Herts View Post
                                rjm, you might want to ask for a new thread to be started for Henry Mellor.

                                For the record, here he is with his family in 1891:


                                1891 Census
                                SALFORD, Lancashire
                                RG12 piece 3215 folio 41 page 29
                                2, Great George Street, Salford
                                Henry Mellor Head Married 41 Pinafore manufacturer London
                                Kate Wife Married 24 London
                                Wallace H Son 5 Scholar Liverpool Lancashire
                                Leo S Son 3 Manchester Lancashire
                                Cyril L Son 1 Manchester Lancashire
                                Buckley O Son 1 month Manchester Lancashire
                                Frank Raffe Boarder Single 23 Grocers Assistant London
                                Harriett Thorne Servant Single 14 Dom. Servant New Brighton Cheshire


                                Frank Raffe is presumably Kate's brother.

                                I couldn't find any baptisms for the children so far.
                                Thanks, Elizabeth. I've made good progress with the Raffe side of the family, they are pretty well documented. It's Henry that is the stumbling block; he just seems to have appeared out of thin air. I know when and where he died ( I have the bill from his funeral )so I might try that route and hope for a middle name.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by rjm View Post
                                  Thanks Christine, I'll have a look there. According to some family stories that have been handed down it would seem that Henry and his wife Kate Raffe didn't worry too much about the niceties of marriage and baptism. My grandmother ( son # 5 Dudley's wife ) was horrified when a marriage certificate could not be produced. There are many family stories about Henry's wife, Kate Raffe, and she does seem to have been her own woman.
                                  Did Kate have any money or other property of her own? Marrying would have handed it all over to her husband; not marrying would have meant that he couldn't claim any rights over it.

                                  Christine
                                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Christine in Herts View Post
                                    Did Kate have any money or other property of her own? Marrying would have handed it all over to her husband; not marrying would have meant that he couldn't claim any rights over it.

                                    Christine
                                    My Dad knew Kate when he was very young and remembers going to visit her in Prestatyn, North Wales. It seems Kate had set up a small under garment business there; whether it was manufacturing or a retail type place in unknown. He remembers Kate living in what we would now call a mobile home and taking great delight in dodging the tax on the place because of some loop hole in the tax regs. My Dad says that Kate was always on the lookout to gain an advantage. But he doubts that Kate had any serious money stashed away. After Henry died she was left to raise 5 sons and seems to have done quite well on her own. Henry died in 1896 and Kate remarried ( William Henry Gosling ) in 1907. But even then she was always referred to as Kate Raffe by family members, even though she adopted her husbands last names. Henry is listed in the 1891 census as a pinafore manufacturer; perhaps there is a chance I might find him in one of the business directories.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I just wanted you to know rjm that I keep having a go at this one but as you already know, it isn't an easy one.
                                      I think it might help if the thread had been a separate one and didn't have so many unrelated answers on it. Perhaps you could ask one of the mods to start a new one for you with just the relevant bits on?

                                      When/where did Kate die and under what name please?
                                      I know that it isn't Kate we are looking for but I thought if I found her in 1881 it might help. However, the most likely one is still in London. There is a Raffe family living in West Derby (Lancashire) in 1881, most of the children born in London and a gap for the age that would fit Kate and a Kate Raffe that fits still in London. The parents are Edward (A commercial traveller) and Emma and I wondered if they were her parents and she met Henry when she went to visit or live with them perhaps. I also wondered if Henry was already married and that's why they didn't marry. Of course they MAY have married and been badly mistranscribed. I notice that in 1911 she made an initial mistake and put married 26 years with 6 children all still living. This had been crossed through and substituted by married 4 years 1 child still living. It's here for anone searching -
                                      http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/23...l=ReturnRecord

                                      I don't suppose his death cert would help but if you ever want it the reference seems to be - Henry Mellor (aged 46) June quarter of 1896, Barton I Ref 8c 395. I can't find a will and probate record for him.
                                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I forgot to mention one interesting find I made; the 1911 census shows two of Henry's sons ( Dudley and Buckley ) boarding with a Robert Frederick Mellor. At first I thought he must be a relative but I have been unable to find a link between Henry Mellor and Robert Frederick Mellor.
                                        I realize that Mellor is not an uncommon surname but really, what are the odds that two of the Mellor boys would end up boarding with someone named Mellor who was not a relation.

                                        Comment

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